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CHUCK

New Machine...new Results...

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I'm not qualified to comment on this one Chuck, though I can see the shading's off, but hang in there. I've just got a new machine too, and now at least my line's are looking like line's. I've struggled for several weeks with my cheap machine, got a custom built liner and wham, my line's are 10 X better immediately.

So, I wouldn't write off your coil machine's, especially as they're favoured by the best. A new coil machine may have given you the boost you needed, mine has.

Keep going Dude!

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It is just that the skin is not a sketch book and i dont think i could use sum one to use as a guine pig even if that sum 1 agrees...

Drawing is basic skill of every visual art and more often than not to be able to draw is to be able to see, not just draw... when you look at the flash you should see how every shade is placed and copy it as precisly as possible on the tattoo

I guess what i mean is at the end of the day you can learn to have clean lines and smooth shading but still not be able to recreate the oryginal image on the skin...

With that beeing said i belive everyone can learn to draw :)

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Chuck, you really need to stop and take a good hard look at what you're doing. You are seriously fucking up large areas of people's skin. I think you should stop tattooing on people and go right back to pigskin until you can find a proper apprenticeship. Andrew is right on this. It needs to stop. Yes, practice makes perfect, but sometimes, you gotta step back. You are teaching yourself not how to tattoo, but how not to tattoo. Honestly, your drawing skills aren'y up to par enough to attempt permanent work. What they mean by put the machines down and go back to drawing is just that. Not only are you going WAY too deep with the lines, but you are chewing up the skin with your shading. Both will result in scars. And when you go back over this tattoo to try to make it darker, you are going to chew up that scar tissue, resulting in a worse mess. The reason your colors don't stay is 1. with the lines, it's going into the wrong layers in the skin, into the fatty tissue, which is going to be horrible fuzzy lines, and 2. when you chew up the skin like that the scar tissue that builds pushes the ink out, and 3. when you don't chew the skin up, you just aren't getting it into the skin more than a layer deep.

i draw every night...do i think my newer stuff looks good...yeah i do.,..

but its not great and thats what i am working on...

by doing stuff that looks ok...i can always make it better...

and im learning how to do that...will i ever be in a shop...?

probably not but i would like to...and the only way for me to get better is to keep practicing....

you AREN'T learning how to do that. You're drawings may be progressing a slight bit, but your tattoos are pretty much the same. This is where I get a bit harsh. How arrogant of you to assume that "Oh I can fix it later, so no biggie." You can't always fix it later. Scars are scars. You have a responsibility to know what you can do, and UNDERSTAND what you cannot do, and make sure you don't overstep yourself. You are overstepping yourself. You cannot run before you walk. Do you know how hard I worked to get my artistic skills up to par before I ever DARED set needle to skin? I had people for YEARS telling me they would buy me a machine and let them practice on them. I didn't feel that my skills were ready. And I drew for 8 more years after the first offer before I even started to seek an apprenticeship. If you seriously respect not just the trade, but the people who want you to tattoo them, then I suggest you think long and hard about what you're doing to them. The longer you do this, the longer you will be doing it wrong, which means the harder it'll be for you to learn the right way, if in fact you ever GET an apprenticeship. Most people who are the right kind of mentors will most likely say no to you, because you have already taught yourself wrong, and they will have to work extra hard to make you forget what you think you've learned. I know I've repeated myself a LOT in this post, but what I had to say bears repeating. Stop. Respect the skin of these people. Before you ruin ALL hope of ever being in a shop without completely relocating.

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Hey Chuck,

Im not really one to critique but your linework is not great here, maybe your machine is running a lil too fast, or to hard, pulling a straight line, like the gun barrel would be much easier with a nicely tuned liner, try and work with your minimum setting.

I think thats the side of a calf, if so, it takes very little hit for a liner needle to pass through that skin easily, one you start to crank it up the machine takes total control over your hand, you shouldnt be chasing your machine down the line, slow it down so you can control it, one lapse in straight movement from your hand can cause it to drift to the side and back causing your wobbly lines. This would also have been a great area to ride the tube as the skins quite tight, i dont know if you did or not.

Shading wise you should have included the shadows under th ripped skin, i find this makes the tattoo stand out a lot more

Look at the shadows under the folds of skin here

a1a8e43e91.jpg

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panthertearingnn5.jpg

sorry for having to post pic separate. But as you can see this elaborates more on the main purpose of the tattoo, the almost 3d effect, also some nice flesh tones in the folds would bring it out more.

Overall i admire your effort and that fact that you share your work with the board.

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It is just that the skin is not a sketch book and i dont think i could use sum one to use as a guine pig even if that sum 1 agrees...

Drawing is basic skill of every visual art and more often than not to be able to draw is to be able to see, not just draw... when you look at the flash you should see how every shade is placed and copy it as precisly as possible on the tattoo

I guess what i mean is at the end of the day you can learn to have clean lines and smooth shading but still not be able to recreate the oryginal image on the skin...

With that beeing said i belive everyone can learn to draw :)

Hi you know, some of the issues here, those long lines on the gun barrel are shakey as hell, the rest are being pointed out to you...from what I see one of the fundamental flaws is that you are a copier, not a drawer (no offence) but if that is the case you need to pay even closer attention to what you are copying and to try and understand, not just reproduce it. Eric said it right, you have the reference but you're not following it (as has been pointed out, this may not be the best reference, if there are already mistakes in the flash, you're not off to a good start). You need to pay attention to where a line stops and starts, not just wether you get it in in one pass, there are a number of overlaps here and I found the most disturbing area to be the teeth, I think it's OK to think of different bits of the tattoo as separate little abstract shapes, or lines, to break down the order in which you do the tattoo, how your hand flows, continuity of line (hope that makes sense) but if so you need to be even more attentive to how they relate to one another and that they end up still making sense. You have done the 2 most central teeth both as complete lines (in a loop as such) so instead of one overlapping the other (even being 2D, you must always think in 3D) you have both overlapping each other as if they were transparent. The area on the right hand side of the mouth you have clearly drawn the negative spaces as positive spaces, so it has lost all sense of looking correct, it's OK to define a form through drawing the space around, or between it (I often do this) but understand what you are doing. I hope I have explained what I was trying to say clearly.

The fact that you opened this thread, thinking that this was your best so far proves that your ego, is leading you astray, which is a shame because I felt you were earning a reputation as being humble and understanding your level and development. I've been guilty of overstretching myself as to the level of what I should be attempting and so not learning as much in the process, with me this came from overconfidence in my artistic side, rather than tattoo ability and was impatient for one to catch up with the other. This was pointed out firstly by my ex mentor, pretty much from the get go, I didn't wanna hear it because he couldn't draw for shit and his tattooing wasn't that great either. When Toph offered similar advice, to slow down, I started by stopping tattooing other people and just doing myself, when I had issues overworking the skin on one, I stopped doing that. This has meant that I have concentrated solely on my drawing and my drawing as it relates to designing flash (something I stupidly wasn't doing) and has set me on an exciting journey and won me a Forgiven machine (a colourpaker, so no more overworked skin issues, yeah!!) to boot. Whilst I've been itching to get back to it, I've really felt the developmental benefits and time to think about what I'm doing and hope that when I come back to it that will mean more than the same level plateau tattoos that I probably would've produced in the meantime. It's also been perfect in that I didn't have an ideal situation in which to work and from end of next month, when I relocate I have a shared proper home studio to work out of and in which to hopefully reap the rewards of my time to reflect.

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Chuck, you really need to stop and take a good hard look at what you're doing. You are seriously fucking up large areas of people's skin. I think you should stop tattooing on people and go right back to pigskin until you can find a proper apprenticeship. Andrew is right on this. It needs to stop. Yes, practice makes perfect, but sometimes, you gotta step back. You are teaching yourself not how to tattoo, but how not to tattoo. Honestly, your drawing skills aren'y up to par enough to attempt permanent work. What they mean by put the machines down and go back to drawing is just that. Not only are you going WAY too deep with the lines, but you are chewing up the skin with your shading. Both will result in scars. And when you go back over this tattoo to try to make it darker, you are going to chew up that scar tissue, resulting in a worse mess. The reason your colors don't stay is 1. with the lines, it's going into the wrong layers in the skin, into the fatty tissue, which is going to be horrible fuzzy lines, and 2. when you chew up the skin like that the scar tissue that builds pushes the ink out, and 3. when you don't chew the skin up, you just aren't getting it into the skin more than a layer deep.

you AREN'T learning how to do that. You're drawings may be progressing a slight bit, but your tattoos are pretty much the same. This is where I get a bit harsh. How arrogant of you to assume that "Oh I can fix it later, so no biggie." You can't always fix it later. Scars are scars. You have a responsibility to know what you can do, and UNDERSTAND what you cannot do, and make sure you don't overstep yourself. You are overstepping yourself. You cannot run before you walk. Do you know how hard I worked to get my artistic skills up to par before I ever DARED set needle to skin? I had people for YEARS telling me they would buy me a machine and let them practice on them. I didn't feel that my skills were ready. And I drew for 8 more years after the first offer before I even started to seek an apprenticeship. If you seriously respect not just the trade, but the people who want you to tattoo them, then I suggest you think long and hard about what you're doing to them. The longer you do this, the longer you will be doing it wrong, which means the harder it'll be for you to learn the right way, if in fact you ever GET an apprenticeship. Most people who are the right kind of mentors will most likely say no to you, because you have already taught yourself wrong, and they will have to work extra hard to make you forget what you think you've learned. I know I've repeated myself a LOT in this post, but what I had to say bears repeating. Stop. Respect the skin of these people. Before you ruin ALL hope of ever being in a shop without completely relocating.

ok..1st im gonna start like this...i am very humble and know that my work can improve alot...

i am a very easy going person and take alot of shit for some of the stuff i post here...

and ya know what...thats why i post it...because people who are above my level

will actually let me know where i went wrong...thats all part of learning...

may just lose a few friends because of what i am about to say but its time its said...

im not in a shop...not doing shop quality work...but every tattoo i have done

has been decent to a point...i will not be using pig skin or fruit as it serves no purpose...

its not even close to real skin...as for fucking up large areas...thats a little harsh...

this particular guy has 6 pieces from me and loves them all...i respect my friends and family

and they enjoy some free tattoos...i always ask them to check it out closely

and even months later they love them...im gonna keep doing what im doing

but i realise that it needs to be on a smaller scale for a while...so basically with or without the help of any one here...

and i do have those willing to help me....im gonna keep practicing with my drawing

and im gonna keep tattooing...lines to deep and scaring...?...are you kidding me...?

if anything it isnt deep enough...i set my machine to a depth of about 1mm

which is way less than 3 layers...you of course have to get below the epidermis

so i do believe my depth is ok...i have had no scaring on anything i have done

i have seen your work and its amazing...will my work ever be that good?...prolly not...

but i respect your ideas and opinions...but to put it plain and simple...everyone here who does

what they are gonna do no matter what someone else may think......its the fucking internet

i have learned alot from this site...but tis getting to a point where most here think they are better than everybody else and can rip up

work as they see fit...im not an ego freak...i know my limit and my ability

i have over stepped my bounds a couple of times but i made it ok...i am fine with doing ok work

and if anyone here took the time to read anything i wrote in my 1st post...this piece was an experiment...plain and simple...

it wasnt meant to be exact the first time because i saw this as an opportunity to learn something...

that thing i plan to learn is how dark or light my ink heals with several sessions until i get it exactly like i want it...

so i missed a couple of spots...some spots are light...no shit...they were meant that way...

i am learning to tattoo...not how not to tattoo and i resent that...i have never resented a comment except for that one...

i am open to all comments and critiques...but for you to say that i am fucking people up...your opinion...they all love the work

not planning to put the machines down because there is no comparison to paper pig or fruits...

so call me a scratcher or what ever you want but dont ever think you know what i am learning or practicing...

comments like these are way off base...instead of your attack on my work...since you are a professional...

offer up some ideas on how to get the results that i am after...i have been around long enough to know

what looks good and what doesnt...i can see flaws...but since i am way below the professional level i tend to keep them to myself...

i plan to slow down and go back to smaller pieces...but if this place is gonna go to the brutally harsh attacks

anything posted from this point on better be fucking amazing...i will be placing some comments on pretty much everything i see

hope everyone can take it as well as the give it...you have offered up some nice advice in the past and always been cordial...

seems that after andrews comment everyone jumped on the band wagon...puppets on a string...

i am here to learn and make a few friends...dont have the ability to seek an apprenticeship and really dont plan to look for another one

i already know how to clean toilets and go for coffee and lunch...if it takes buying every book i can find thats what ill do...

but im at a point where im tired of all the people that have shops or work in shops thinking their shit dont stink...

we are human and everyone makes mistakes...i am getting better and will continue to get better...

i usually post in stages to show my progression...will any of these comments discourage me...?...NOPE...

seems that alot of folks try to discourage...if thats what the industry is turning into....ill stay underground...

there will always be someone willing to let me practice on them...and i will do the best i can everytime...

so now that i have written a book let me sum it up really easily...

thanks for the comments and critiques...thanks for the advice and thanks for sharing...

i will slow down...but stopping is out of the question

chuck

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Chuck,

Firstly, why not post some pics of your drawings you have been practicing in the art section? I just had a quick look and all I found on the first few pages were pics that were either flash. scanned or photoshopped.....no actual drawings (unless the coral and occy ones are yours). You said yourself in another thread you are struggling with drawing so how you could possibly understand the principles of lines, light & shade, depth, etc and apply them to tattooing? This is why it is so important to at least have this knowledge under your belt so you know why a technique needs to be used and how to apply it. Whether it is pencil or a tattoo, the same principles apply only the application is different. If you post your drawings we can see your progress in that area and you can improve your art which will naturally improve your tattooing.

Secondly, While ever you have the opinion "i am fine with doing ok work" you can't expect to improve. This would indicate you are fine poking along doing what you are doing. That is the general attitude of scratchers that are in it for money....just do an OK job and get paid.... I am not accusing you of being a scratcher, just pointing this out.

Most people here aren't thinking they are better than everybody else, they are just seeing things in people's work that needs improving. OK, someone might say they don't like the design....well, each to their own. But when it comes down to the technique aspects of the tattoo there's plenty someone can say that is valid. Like in this piece, as eric1972 said, you didn't follow the reference. It isn't a case of "I can fix it later".... the fact is parts were shaded that should not have been shaded at all in the first place. Parts were lined that shouldn't have been lined (top and bottom of the skin rips for example). Which comes back to the first paragraph, if you had the knowledge you would have known how to line and shade this piece in pencil before tattooing it.

No on is trying to discourage you dude, we are just trying to help you improve. To be quite honest, I don't think you DO know your own limit and ability :( Not saying I, or anyone else, is better than you.....

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Needle and skin is just a diffrent medium but ability to draw is universal be it on paper or skin.

"if thats what the industry is turning into....ill stay underground...

there will always be someone willing to let me practice on them...and i will do the best i can everytime..."

I think we all belive you will do your best it is just that your best dosent look to be skin worthy atm and it isnt all about lines or how dark and smooth your shading is.

Anyway good luck with what you do man hope i didnt come across rude.

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Man... wtf??? Seems like everyone in here smells blood and comes running in to take their shot... What a bunch of dicks...

Yeah, he bombed this one but we've seen better from him and worse from him.... Let it rest already, he knows where he fucked up.

I know the linework is shaky as hell and he didn't follow the reference as much as he should have but damn... if you got something to say at least tell him what he needs to do to improve on or how to fix it... Quit acting so fucking elite unless you have pics of your own work (in skin) in here to back it up...

For you Chuck, I'm NOT gonna jump on this bandwagon and attack just cuz you did a few fuck ups (my latest one has plenty of fuck ups that nobody but me and a few others will tell me about, and I'm glad they had the balls to tell me, thanks for those who did, I respect that a lot more than saying it looks great when it's really not)... I know where you fucked up and you should too... Don't stop but slow down some, I totally bommed my third tatttoo on real skin a few years back but told him to see me in a few weeks for a re touch... I knew I couldn't pull it off yet when he came back so I told him it wasn't healed well enough (I was drawing the design over and over in the meantime trying to fix what's already there) so he agreed to it not knowing I was really waiting on my skills to increase before going into it again... I did save it but it took me 4 months of drawing the pic I took of his unfinished work over and over and over before I felt like it was safe to redo it... The tat looks bad ass now but it looked like shit after the second session and took a LOT of practice on paper before I got it right... (unbelievable ammounts of paper went into my trash can before I was ready to fix it). You really need to do the same for this one, use the pic of what's already there and print it out and draw it out over and over til it looks really good... post those drawings in the art class section and don't try a re touch til most the people in here say it's right on... There's nothing that can't be fixed (even the shaky long straight lines)but now that what's there is permanently in skin it's time to step up your game some to be able to pull it off... I'll be there for you any time you ask so ask ask ask and draw draw draw... And yes, try to hide that firing pin in your future drawings of this... You can do it but it's gonna take lots of practice and critique in the art class section...

I'm telling you this from a friend to a friend so don't take it wrong... what's there is there and you can't erase that but you can still fix it with time and patience... PM me with drawings if you have to... I'll help as much as I can...

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Dave - your first line is my thoughts exactly....

the guy needs to learn.. we know that, so do a lot of us, me included.

But he took the comments on the head...several times... and then again....now the issues have been aired loudly lets get to helping.

mistakes have been made, and lessons will be learned, and concerns should be aired by other more experienced members for sure.

Hopefully some warnings have been headed.

Chuck... if you feel you cant stop tattooing on skin, and you have friends that are happy to be tattooed by you, I agree with the idea of maybe going much smaller.... and more simple...

that way you fulfil your lust for ink ( we all know that feeling :-) but its on a smaller scale... perfecting the lines and shading technique..before going up in scale. I know I feel comfy doing small pieces on others while i'm learning still.

gather up as much help as you can off nice folk that offered because we all want to see great work coming from you ( and from us all ) :(

its really sad when someone has a desire to be great at something but they don't have the right teaching to perfect it, so many folk on here would make amazing tattooists if they only had the chance of apprenticeship.. BUT they have to be fought for like all the other worthwhile things in life.

good to see you can take an ear bashing without angry retaliation.

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"Quit acting so fucking elite unless you have pics of your own work (in skin) in here to back it up... "

Many have respect for others and dont treat them as sketch books but if u think its ok to do so then thats fine with me lol

I will keep practice my drawing and pigi until i at least understand what i am about to tattoo on another person skin.

Btw the best advice Chuck got was andrew's first reply and i mean it :(

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You want to see you benificial a apprenticeship could be? I did this tattoo maybe 2 or 3 years ago. I have only been tattooing for 3 and a half-ish years.

PICT0182.jpg

let me show you something chuck. I'm not thinking I'm a better person than you, I just think that you are one of those that needs one on one instruction. A friend of mine was apprenticing at the same shop I did. Finally, one night when we were closing, I called the boss and asked if he could tattoo me. His first tattoo, I would instruct him as we went.

l_72943edc611fc597a13b8d235fbd16e9.jpg

You can see that there are a few blowouts, bad ones, at the bottom, yet none on the top. This is what one on one tattooing instruction does. Stops you, and says "see, you fucked up there. This is what you need to change" so that you can learn EXACTLY what you are doing wrong, rather than showing it to people on the internet, who can't see you tattoo, so no one can see what you are doing wrong. I have an entire leg (minus one piece) that is dedicated to the apprentices at the shop. So they can learn. You want to see what they are learning?

Picture355.jpg

Chong is doing that. He has been tattooing MAYBE 4 months now.

What's wrong with scrubbing toilets and doing errands for a mentor? Someone is prepared to give up time and possibly money to teach you, and you can't scrub a shitter for them? If you want to go to school, you have to pay for it, correct? Doing menal labor for proper instruction instead of paying thousands of dollars is nothing to scoff at.

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I think I spot some of your work,which is quite good...but this,this is like a first tattoo of someone.Prety bad.Bad outline,bad shading....

if you are not sure about the final result with some of the designs,dont start.Get your skils with tattoos which are more close to your level.

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Man... wtf??? Seems like everyone in here smells blood and comes running in to take their shot... What a bunch of dicks...

Yeah, he bombed this one but we've seen better from him and worse from him.... Let it rest already, he knows where he fucked up.

I know the linework is shaky as hell and he didn't follow the reference as much as he should have but damn... if you got something to say at least tell him what he needs to do to improve on or how to fix it... Quit acting so fucking elite unless you have pics of your own work (in skin) in here to back it up...

For you Chuck, I'm NOT gonna jump on this bandwagon and attack just cuz you did a few fuck ups (my latest one has plenty of fuck ups that nobody but me and a few others will tell me about, and I'm glad they had the balls to tell me, thanks for those who did, I respect that a lot more than saying it looks great when it's really not)... I know where you fucked up and you should too... Don't stop but slow down some, I totally bommed my third tatttoo on real skin a few years back but told him to see me in a few weeks for a re touch... I knew I couldn't pull it off yet when he came back so I told him it wasn't healed well enough (I was drawing the design over and over in the meantime trying to fix what's already there) so he agreed to it not knowing I was really waiting on my skills to increase before going into it again... I did save it but it took me 4 months of drawing the pic I took of his unfinished work over and over and over before I felt like it was safe to redo it... The tat looks bad ass now but it looked like shit after the second session and took a LOT of practice on paper before I got it right... (unbelievable ammounts of paper went into my trash can before I was ready to fix it). You really need to do the same for this one, use the pic of what's already there and print it out and draw it out over and over til it looks really good... post those drawings in the art class section and don't try a re touch til most the people in here say it's right on... There's nothing that can't be fixed (even the shaky long straight lines)but now that what's there is permanently in skin it's time to step up your game some to be able to pull it off... I'll be there for you any time you ask so ask ask ask and draw draw draw... And yes, try to hide that firing pin in your future drawings of this... You can do it but it's gonna take lots of practice and critique in the art class section...

I'm telling you this from a friend to a friend so don't take it wrong... what's there is there and you can't erase that but you can still fix it with time and patience... PM me with drawings if you have to... I'll help as much as I can...

Respect!

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I think...

All comments about the tattooing aside...

Whoever drew that flash should be slapped upside the head with a Buick. I mean, seriously. It looks like my 6 year old drew it. And I plan on having him draw something for me to put on myself, but that'll be a purposely bad design and I'll love it because I'm hard core mommy. But wow. Yuck.

I think that it's waaaaay easier to be slapped by flaws in the tattoo itself if you're immediately put off by the design... Seriously, I said "UGHHHHHHHH What an ugly tattooooooo" before I even saw the tattoo.

(disclaimer: what the fuck do I know anyway? I think it's an ugly ugly design. I also hate Precious Moments and look how popular they are! ;))

Chuck :) Smile, breathe, tomorrow's another day. I'd suggest taking about 300 hours (it's addictive. ughhh) and surfing through www.wetcanvas.com There is SO much useful information there.. I've been a member for about 4 years and have learned SO much. If you want to concentrate on developing your art in general, it's the motherlode, baby.

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let me start by saying i wanna apologize if i came off like an asshole in my last post...

i dont mind critique or advice but to be told i am fucking people up is just wrong of

anyone who said it...i know my work needs improvement...

if anyone took the time to read all my initail post you would see that this tattoo was an

experiment...to see how light the ink would heal...i just changed from kuro sumi to ONE

and i have to say ONE is some scary shit...this wash was with #16 cap one drop of ONE ink

and the rest witch hazel...and it went in dark as hell...i am working on this from light to dark...

backwards to some but it works for me...i am NOT scaring anyone or digging in them...my depth is less than recommended...i only go about 1mm for lines and about that or less for color...

ONE is nothing like a #2 pencil...i can control a pencil because i know how...

i am learning to control the ink...but to do that i do it in steps...i will post this again when its complete...

and then plan on listening to all the apologies for bashing me the way some of you did...

i actually read between the lines and take the hidden advice given...even the ass comments have valuable info in them

thanks to all for the advice...ill show this again when its done...as for now...i think ill just have this closed

since it got way outta hand...

chuck

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