[Dave_The_Wicked]

CHUCK, on Jun 6 2008, 02:33 AM, said:

and just a minor follow up to my previous post...
if you plan to make a living doing this...
you have to spend money to make money...!!!
the people here will tell you do's and donts
what to buy what not to buy...
should the wealth of knowledge be charged for...
IMO yes...the artists here sharing paid their dues
and if ya wanna be as good as them some day...
PAY YOURS...

chuck

Agreed... Paying the dues shows a sign of loyalty, commitment, and respect for what you're learning... Getting an aprinticeship you better be willing to be loyal, commited and totally respect those who are willing to teach you... For $2 per month... it's nothing... just pay it or save $4 per year by paying the $20 up front... Other places cost a lot more and ppl there are a lot less willing to help.

[TrampsInK.]

You guys really have a bee in your bonnet,,lol,

I don't think that the real issue here is that the people who look are too stingy to pay the 20 dollars...

I think that if you repeatedly come accross a site that wont let you look at things then you will lose interest because you will not be able to find the information here... a bit like advertising.
You could tell people until youre blue in the face that you do tattoos for a living, but it really only spreads via word of mouth and seeing the previous work. I totally agree the fact that 20 dollars is bugger all to spend, but having trawled through some other sites who offer subs, they suck and i wouldnt give them the time of day.

All im trying to say is, that if you google something thats not in the free site then you probably wont try to come back if you dont know the site.

You say it best chuck,, if i can get something for free then i wont pay....... fair comment, and most people are like that.

Why dont you try to search for some stuff, see how many times you come accross the forum, click the link then get told you cant have access,,, how many times will you carry on clicking on the link?
The 20 dollars probably isnt the issue,, its getting peeps to look at the site first then let them decide I think, I guess I was fortunate enough to have seen this site a few times to know that I wanted to join it before I was prevented access to some parts.

I dont think that you really want to open up to all and sundry, especially the plebs that wont pay their dues, but even experienced people with geniune input that search for something thats not in the free site might never join.......

serious site visitors wouldnt change email details tp avoid paying the 20 bux. Stop whinin on about the cost and the cheapskates and think of the other people who wont be only looking for basic info found only on the free site

Gooood debate tho..... clears the air

Just a thought tho,, does anyone know some chick who needs a butterfly doin?? I think Im gonna get kicked off here soon, lol, mebbe I can get my 20 bux back by doin a butt cheek

[CHUCK]

TrampsInK., on Jun 6 2008, 06:54 AM, said:

I think that if you repeatedly come accross a site that wont let you look at things then you will lose interest because you will not be able to find the information here... a bit like advertising.
You could tell people until youre blue in the face that you do tattoos for a living, but it really only spreads via word of mouth and seeing the previous work. I totally agree the fact that 20 dollars is bugger all to spend, but having trawled through some other sites who offer subs, they suck and i wouldnt give them the time of day.

All im trying to say is, that if you google something thats not in the free site then you probably wont try to come back if you dont know the site.

You say it best chuck,, if i can get something for free then i wont pay....... fair comment, and most people are like that.

Why dont you try to search for some stuff, see how many times you come accross the forum, click the link then get told you cant have access,,, how many times will you carry on clicking on the link?
The 20 dollars probably isnt the issue,, its getting peeps to look at the site first then let them decide I think, I guess I was fortunate enough to have seen this site a few times to know that I wanted to join it before I was prevented access to some parts.

I dont think that you really want to open up to all and sundry, especially the plebs that wont pay their dues, but even experienced people with geniune input that search for something thats not in the free site might never join.......

serious site visitors wouldnt change email details tp avoid paying the 20 bux. Stop whinin on about the cost and the cheapskates and think of the other people who wont be only looking for basic info found only on the free site

Gooood debate tho..... clears the air

Just a thought tho,, does anyone know some chick who needs a butterfly doin?? I think Im gonna get kicked off here soon, lol, mebbe I can get my 20 bux back by doin a butt cheek

with all the information in the open now...if some one comes to this site and loses interest
then do we really want them as members anyway...?...tattooing is not something to be taken lightly
you can kill some one with you needles...if you cant commit...dont tattoo...
have you not found this site to be informative enough to want to learn more?...
i guess im simply saying that this site has as much information
as you would possibly need to get started correctly...for those of us not in shops...
20 bux for the lessons learned here...?...not worth it to learn more...?
this debate has really become pointless...same things being said...ill make it as simple as possible...

if you wanna tattoo learn all you can...go over to inkednation and ask those guys for help
be sure to tell them you are not in a shop and see what happens...and i promise you
you will run back here and drop 20 bux in a heartbeat...
i personally signed up there as a free member...posted a couple pieces and asked for help...
what i got was STOP TATTOOING YOUR WORK LOOKS LIKE SHIT...
and it did look like shit...i then found this site and the people here helped me to
not do shitty work anymore...and did this without making me feel like a fucking idiot or dumbass...
they gave honest open critique and ways to fix it...find another site like that...let me know...
it simply isnt gonna happen...JASON STARTED THIS SITE...looking for help and helping others...
i can bet he never thought it would take off like it has...crotalus has been around the site longer than i have and i see his points also...
now that he is in a shop...he can get a free membership...contact jason for the info...
he really is here to help...not to get rich...this shit costs money and if you want the info...pay for it here
or better yet GO TO THE LOCAL SHOP AND GET APPRENTICESHIP...1 year minimum in my area...
the artist gave me the choice...10 grand up front...and i would get a small paycheck for expenses and such
or i could come in and work for free...you have to pay bills so cant work for free...and who has 10 grand laying around...?

good luck to all those who have contributed to this site...i for one am sick of all the whining and bitching
either continue to read the free section...which by the way has plenty of info...fork out 2-10-20 bux for a membership
or stop fucking tattooing...
the cost for a lifetime membership is less than a 4 ounce bottle of intenze starbrite or kuro sumi color
ponder that thought...for the price of one bottle of ink you can be a lifetime member...
or you could just go ahead and buy wizard or royal dragon or even vivid ink...tattoo away...
but tattoo at your own risk...and simply put im not coming to visit you in jail when you kill someone with
CC or a BBP because you didnt take the time to learn...this is a form of schooling...
you paid for high school because you wanted a diploma...now you wanna tattoo so pay for it also...
NO BODY OWES ANY OF US ANYTHING...WE OWE THEM FOR SHARING...
im done ranting...
crotalus has my utmost respect...and i understand ever post that has been made...
it simply boils down to money...should jason be required to pay from pocket to host this site
so we can learn...?...of course not...like the site support it...if ya dont...take care and good luck

chuck

[J.J. Flash]

I appreciate all the feedback. Just so people know, at this point I am getting enough in membership dues to cover the cost of hosting. I hope this continues into the future, otherwise I;d have probs But, for me it's more about really building a great membership base. I'd rather have less paying members, but a better quality artist/person. But, yeah all points are taken into consideration.

Rather than split up "Shop Talk" and make the Health section part of the regular forums, I'd prefer to move the best and most informative sterilization and safety info to "Most Requested." That way the good info is available to all. But otherwise, how should the site be organized for the paying members vs. non-paying?

[crotalus258]

Well it seems that everyone thinks this is a money issue. I spent the last two years "paying my dues", learning from local artist and finally saving up enough to open my own shop. Here in Florida you have to be under the direct supervision of a physician or dentist to legally tattoo, and believe me it is not an easy task finding a doctor who is willing to sign off on your procedures and make himself available for training and consultation. I looked for over a year and finally found a doctor willing to supervise my shop, but as with everything else, it comes at a price. I am "paying my dues" every month for bio-med waste pick-up and yearly for a supervising doctor. Not to mention the health dept permit fees.

I don't take tattooing lightly, I'm very serious about what I do and I consider myself very dedicated to the art.

Anyway, I don't mean to bitch and Jason I very much appreciate what you have started here. And I appreciate the experienced members who've helped me out, Mark, Andy, Fish and a few others.

I went ahead and made a $20.00 DONATION to the site, but I refuse to pay for membership.....LOL

I think its time we ended this thread......>

[CHUCK]

crotalus258, on Jun 6 2008, 07:26 PM, said:

Well it seems that everyone thinks this is a money issue. I spent the last two years "paying my dues", learning from local artist and finally saving up enough to open my own shop. Here in Florida you have to be under the direct supervision of a physician or dentist to legally tattoo, and believe me it is not an easy task finding a doctor who is willing to sign off on your procedures and make himself available for training and consultation. I looked for over a year and finally found a doctor willing to supervise my shop, but as with everything else, it comes at a price. I am "paying my dues" every month for bio-med waste pick-up and yearly for a supervising doctor. Not to mention the health dept permit fees.

I don't take tattooing lightly, I'm very serious about what I do and I consider myself very dedicated to the art.

Anyway, I don't mean to bitch and Jason I very much appreciate what you have started here. And I appreciate the experienced members who've helped me out, Mark, Andy, Fish and a few others.

I went ahead and made a $20.00 DONATION to the site, but I refuse to pay for membership.....LOL

I think its time we ended this thread......>

none of my comments were directed at you...
you were a member here way before i was...
and from what i can remember you gave me some very good advice...
i congratulate you on your success...i know you have paid your dues...
and will continue to do so to be the best you can...thats dedication...
i wish you well in all that you have done and will do in the future...
and hope that now you will continue to come around and share your
experiences with those of us still in the beginning stages...
your input is always valued...and respected...
i 2nd the motion for closing the thread....nothing else can be said that hasnt already

chuck

[crotalus258]

goob3r, on Jun 2 2008, 01:40 AM, said:

ITS 20 FUCKIN DOLLARS PEOPLE!!!!!! Thats one butterfly on some chicks ass!! Quit bieng babies and save up your allowance!!!!

Twenty bucks for a tattoo? I don't even set up my machines for less than fifty bucks.

This post has been edited by crotalus258: 06 June 2008 - 04:37 PM

[TrampsInK.]

CHUCK, on Jun 7 2008, 12:59 AM, said:

good luck to all those who have contributed to this site...i for one am sick of all the whining and bitching
either continue to read the free section...which by the way has plenty of info...fork out 2-10-20 bux for a membership
or stop fucking tattooing...
the cost for a lifetime membership is less than a 4 ounce bottle of intenze starbrite or kuro sumi color
ponder that thought...for the price of one bottle of ink you can be a lifetime member...
or you could just go ahead and buy wizard or royal dragon or even vivid ink...tattoo away...
but tattoo at your own risk...and simply put im not coming to visit you in jail when you kill someone with
CC or a BBP because you didnt take the time to learn...this is a form of schooling...
you paid for high school because you wanted a diploma...now you wanna tattoo so pay for it also...
NO BODY OWES ANY OF US ANYTHING...WE OWE THEM FOR SHARING...
im done ranting...
crotalus has my utmost respect...and i understand ever post that has been made...
it simply boils down to money...should jason be required to pay from pocket to host this site
so we can learn...?...of course not...like the site support it...if ya dont...take care and good luck

chuck

I dont know whether your post is directed at me or not, but Im sorry if youve misconstrued my attempts at trying to put a different viewpoint accross. I had, by the way , paid full membership.

Well done with the site anyway Jason, I know how hard it is to keep a site running, respect.

[CHUCK]

TrampsInK., on Jun 6 2008, 07:48 PM, said:

I dont know whether your post is directed at me or not, but Im sorry if youve misconstrued my attempts at trying to put a different viewpoint accross. I had, by the way , paid full membership.

Well done with the site anyway Jason, I know how hard it is to keep a site running, respect.

my comments were not directed at anyone in particular...
just in general...didnt mean for the confusion...
sometimes my fingers type before my brain thinks...
its a great site...plenty to learn...in 9 months i have good from dood your work is pretty bad
to man you are getting way better...the site has helped me and i support it fully...
glad you joined also...you will be pleased...as i hope others will...

if anyone took offense to anything i said i apologize for that...
not my intention at all...

chuck

[Mario AKA mark]

I like how people say they can't afford it because they have akid on the way. Well kids cost more then $19.95.

[ElDubya]

Except for "end of financial year" sales at K-Mart

[MickeyC]

Man, this looks like this is turning into one oh those topics that may go on forever. I think is is good that TAFKAJ is open to suggestions on how to improve the site from all of us. I would like to thank him for helping so many find the info we must have to try to make a go at your dreams. I think that some good points have been made on both sides, however I think that finding a middle ground on this subject will be difficult. I can see on a small level where Crotalus258 is coming from with the profit end of this site. I have seen alot of added people in just the short time I have been a member, and I hope it continues to grow. With any luck I will learn enough to pass some useful info on to a beginner. But he is correct the site has the potential to turn a nice profit. And TAFKAJ deserves to see some monitay gain for the hard work and time invested. I do think that their may be small things that could be done with any extra funds left after all the cost and suitable deserves have been taken care of. Maybe the site could sponcer a few contest that only full members could participate, and the prize could be paid out of those extra funds should they be avalible. Flash contest, tattoo of the month, or even best newcomer or some shit. Even if the site awarded a forgiven or anther prize after evey 30 new life time members or so that is a conest every couple of months. The site would make a profit and it would be much more apealing to every member involved. Could you imagine the partisipation and the creative things that would come out of these contest if the fees were handled by the site. And it would not have to be a ton of prizes Who knows, maybe down the road some of the dealers, vedors, builders, and artist could donate product, flash and other stuff to make the contest even more exciting. We all have the oppertunity to be in on a site that has the potential to take the industry to endless possibilities. Look at the wealth of information that can be obtained on this site in the area od CC alone, all who have contributed have potentially saved the life and possibly painful death of some poor smuck. How can this not put you in a positive state of mind.
So sorry for the minor rant, the Doc. has me on some new meds, they got me geeking a little. Seems like a good a time as any to do a bit of drawing.

This post has been edited by MickeyC: 10 June 2008 - 07:24 PM

[pimpenstein]

ok the way i see it is a paid membership will help keep out some of the bad eggs passing off bad info and all to us. we havent seen much of it yet but its out there. it also adds a level of security so ya dont get threats and broken hands haha. my post is actually for this idea. how about a free trial, get 3 free days, if ya like it ya can pay for more

[Stuart (Coleford_Ink)]

Can somebody close this now.

[Toph]

Coleford_Ink, on Jun 10 2008, 10:21 PM, said:

Can somebody close this now.

Why? People should be able to express their views either way. And they seem to be doing that in a civil way. These types of discussions are good.
If you dont like reading it, just dont click on the link!

[Chef-Ink]

Toph, on Jun 11 2008, 11:36 AM, said:

Why? People should be able to express their views either way. And they seem to be doing that in a civil way. These types of discussions are good.
If you dont like reading it, just dont click on the link!

I agree 1000% no need to close or end the discussion..it hasnt degenerated into a pissing contest or finger pointing mess of a thread, its a valid discussion.

I paid the $20, im in a shop and could have a free ride, but I didnt want to....i gained from the site, $20 seems like a VERY small thanks for what ive gotten from the place and I understand the $ involved to host it.

if you dont want to pay, i have no beef either..thats a personal decision, just dont cop out and use the excuse of a "kid on the way"....i have 2 kids and if $20 is gonna make or break you, you have much bigger problems down the road.


$20 = 3 packs of smokes
$20 = 8 cups of good coffee
$20 = 4 beers at a bar
$20 = 5 gallons of gas

guess its all about priorities, and where tattooing lies in those priorities

[Joe Sleepy]

Chef-Ink, on Jun 11 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

$20 = 3 packs of smokes
$20 = 8 cups of good coffee
$20 = 4 beers at a bar
$20 = 5 gallons of gas

I've kept out of this but I
have to say that, in my
opinion, Chef sums it up
perfectly........

[Scotty@Oztatz]

And I would say Chef, that you guys have cheaper smokes than us but more expensive glasses of beer.

Price of membership.............$20
Price of a decent tattoo machine..........$200
Price of knowledge of bbp and cc...................priceless

[Black_Mamba]

Geez Chef, $20 for 5 gallons of gas? You guys have it good..... we are paying over $31 for the same amount!

[J.J. Flash]

I like the sponsored contest idea and will probably offer something like that up at some point in the near future. I could definitely do a Forgiven machine or something of that nature. Great idea! Keep the discussion going. I still am looking for more feedback about ways to make the Members only section appealing and useful to paying members.