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ok i know there are diffrent types of springs...is there a difference in lineing and shading springs?? i guess the shading springs front spring is longer and the liners shorter?? what would be the best for either or.....sorry if this is already somewhere in the forum i looked and didnt come up with anything thanks guys....oh and i found some spring set combos with the a-bar....i dunno if i should get em tho untill i find out more about this topic....i apreciate the comments

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there is a difference between liner and shader. ill try to explain it to you the best way i can...

liner springs are thicker so that they produce the machine to move faster. i personally use a .020 contact spring for my liner

shading springs are thinner so that it slows down the machine a little so you can control how fast the ink is going in better. i used a .016 contact spring for my shader

basically the thicker the spring the faster your machine will move.

my personal set ups...

liner

.020 front .018 back

shader

.016 front .016 back

hope that helps. thats the best way i can answer your question. sorry if it didnt help...

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I thought it had something to do with thickness, but was not too sure, thanx thats helped me to ;)

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I ordered some .16 springs for a shader I have.. trying to get it dialed in and running better then it is/was

anyways the springs come totaly flat.. how do you know what kinda bend to put in the spring?

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play around with the widths of springs

take a look at quality machines and see what kinda stuff they use

the battle is knowing what you want them to do

why the hell would anyone want a 24 or 26 guage spring why the hell would you need a spring that thick unless your drilling for oil

Edited by mark101

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i have a question about springs...

i just got a machine build kit from bicknee(super slot)..... so i'm checking all the parts and i notice that the front spring has no angle on it ...wtf... this is not normal is it.....should i try to bend the spring(dont think i should)...i'm super confused....why would they send an unbent spring....any ideas?

gonna post a pic soon

Edited by martinmdaddy3

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the kit i bought....also picked up a case for my machines...nice size ..will hold 5 machines

post-1133-1208017764_thumb.jpg

Edited by martinmdaddy3

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ok so i noticed that people seem to think that springs control the speed and function of youre machine.......

not exactly true

springs thikness is just a factor

you also need to be thinking about the size of youre capacitor, size of youre coils,wieght of youre a bar and stroke length

for instance

a small cap will make your machine run faster but it will have less back up power to generate enough force to run larger needle groupings

say you are setting up an out liner for running 5 to 9 liners

i start by usinig a 10 uhf cap 13 front and 13 back spring and a light wieght a bar

then set up the machine with a 9 liner in it and run it if you have a meter check youre speed (not duty cycle)my liners run at 143hz loaded (which is too fast for alot of people

you should be aiming for about 115hz to start)

then to bring my speed up i will add a thicker front spring

to generate more force i will add a 15 uhf cap and a thicker back spring

then check my duty cycle if i need to slow the machine down i will add a thicker a bar and bigger cap

to speed it up i will add a thicker front spring and drop the cap down and add a thicker rear spring to generate more force

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as different width and length springs can do different stuff aswell

as does different working length as does just changing the contact screw angle

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why the hell would anyone want a 24 or 26 guage spring why the hell would you need a spring that thick unless your drilling for oil

Now, unless gauges have been switched for machine spring from everything else in the world.. Then a 20-24 gauge spring would be a thin soft spring thus slowing down your machine as the spring action or rise of the a-bar would not have the same force as a thicker one ( good for a liner as it could have a longer stroke with the lower resistance ). A thick or strong gauge spring like a 16 gauge would be heavier and have more of a snap to return to it's resting position, good for a shader as the stroke would be shorter. Hope any of this helps..

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Now, unless gauges have been switched for machine spring from everything else in the world.. Then a 20-24 gauge spring would be a thin soft spring thus slowing down your machine as the spring action or rise of the a-bar would not have the same force as a thicker one ( good for a liner as it could have a longer stroke with the lower resistance ). A thick or strong gauge spring like a 16 gauge would be heavier and have more of a snap to return to it's resting position, good for a shader as the stroke would be shorter. Hope any of this helps..

you have it backwards gabby..20-24 gauge is thick...16 gauge is thin.

Edited by **hariyoshi**

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yeah its a bit confusing with wire gauge higher number the thinner, but with metal like these springs higher the thicker

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english folk may be cofused cos in england we mesure sheet metal in gauge size we start at 10s gauge all the way

up to 24s gauge we go up in 2s 10 is the thickest at 1/8 of an inch . it got me when i started asking this kind of question

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you have it backwards gabby..20-24 gauge is thick...16 gauge is thin.

In the US - the lower the number the thicker the steel - Im not sure how it is other places..... but Im positive that here 16 gauge steel is thicker then say 20 gauge steel.

Here is a link to a chart that I found that explains it :

Steel gauge link

Edited by AnTiCrAsH

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Guest krazy_tatau

according to eikon you wanna have a 15 and 16 gauge on your liner, and a 18 and 19 gauge on your colour packer.

so wouldnt that mean 15gauge is thicker than 18 ? seeing as thick short springs hit hard and faster than thin long springs ??? though i gotta say i got 15s on a machine im working on and it packs colour alot better than it does outlines

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Holy Crap, with the backwards measuring of the steel gauges in the states, I would hate

to have an American Auto Mechanic gap my spark plugs.

Here in Ozz the lower the number, the thinner the steel, or my feeler gauge set is marked wrong !!!

No offence intended to any mechanics out there !!

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This is from the Eikon web site:

The Liner machines have a light-weight armature bar and a 15uF capacitor. The air gap on the Short Stroke Liner Machine is 3/64” (dime), resulting in a speed of approximately 140 CPS (cycles per second) with a tube and needle set-up in the machine. The Short Stroke Liner Machine has a 0.019” thick timing spring and a 0.018” thick main spring. The air gap on the Long Stroke Liner Machine is 1/16” (nickel) resulting in a speed of approximately 140 CPS (cycles per second) with a tube and needle set-up in the machine. The Long Stroke Liner Machine has a 0.020” thick timing spring and a 0.019” thick main spring.

The Shader Machine has a mid-weight armature bar, a 33uF capacitor, and a 0.016” thick timing spring with a 0.017” thick main spring. The air gap on the Shader Machine is 1/16” (nickel), resulting in a speed of approximately 110 CPS (cycles per second) with a tube and needle set up in the machine.

The Coloring Machine has a heavy-weight armature bar, a 47uF capacitor, and a 0.015” thick timing spring with a 0.016” thick main spring. The air gap on the Coloring Machine is 1/16” (nickel), resulting in a speed of approximately 100 CPS (cycles per second) with a tube and needle set up in the machine.

You can also check this out:

http://forum.ink-trails.com/Abar-and-Sprin...l&hl=spring

Edited by justjoshin

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Guest krazy_tatau

damn so it does i misread it lol i just seen 15 and on liner and stopped reading. you are right it does say 18 and 19 for liners. makes sense now why my 15s pack colour nicely lol. damn it i got confused. i knew 15s were for coluir thats why i put them on.. then read here and misread eikon file now i changed them to a 19 and 18 hahaha back to 15s AGAIN damn lol, the 18 and 19 i got on it now shade very soft and smooth though not bad for solid colour either but not as good as the 15s

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In the US - the lower the number the thicker the steel - Im not sure how it is other places..... but Im positive that here 16 gauge steel is thicker then say 20 gauge steel.

Here is a link to a chart that I found that explains it :

Steel gauge link

those are for sheet metal gauge. we are using spring stock or feeler gauge as our springs. get a caliper and measure your front and rear springs and post it on here.

Edited by **hariyoshi**

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you have it backwards gabby..20-24 gauge is thick...16 gauge is thin.

lol... got your post as i was scratching my head. i also wished to ask if.. not the thickness, but the width of springs (back one) makes any relevant difference

Edited by dead bird singing

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One day they may upgrade all this crazy ancient technical chatter with realistic values...

Gauge alone is a factor, but so is width of the spring/leaf, so is the armature-to-mount gap. You can use a 16 and I can use a 16, but if mine is thinner or if my gap between the armature and the mount is not the same, we will have two separate speeds.

What they need is a standard gap... or a measurement that reflects the actual FORCE at common SPANS.

EG...

80g of force at 200mm

85g of force at 180mm

95g of force at 160mm

It wouldn't matter if it was 16 or 20 or 22... with an armature gap of 160mm from the mount, it would hold 95g of spring force. (The force would be the weight that it could resist or the weight required to bend it 1mm... some standard.) {NOTE: Those numbers are just fictional. But knowing them would allow you to upgrade to a stiffer spring/leaf or downgrade to a softer one.}

As it stands now, it is a guessing game, or a math-quest to determine what spring you need. (To upgrade or downgrade.) Not to mention that metals with different composure do not have the same results. High carbon steel is more rigid, at the same thickness, as pure iron would be more flexible at the same thickness.

(Doesn't help that the leafs don't have markings, so you can't even guess which one you actually have.)

The best option would be to purchase a set, and keep them marked, and keep that website address handy for the future.

Don't get me started on plated leafs/springs... LOL

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