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greyshadows

Cheap Crap Armature Bars, Coils, Springs

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Ive been really excited about getting in to machine re-building and soon building from scratch. Ive been reading all i can about parts and proper setup... ive come across people using the word "cheap" to describe replacement parts such as coils, springs and bars? Is there a way to tell by eye or feel whats crap and whats top of the line? I mean I can pretty easily tell a good custom hand made machine from a typical chinese crappy one.... but the parts are another story. any help would be awesome.

VT

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Most of the cheap stuff comes from chinese suppliers. Check out the builders that hang around this forum they all make quality handmade parts. I just had a set of custom coils and springs made by Steele and the difference in quality is night and day.

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I mean I can pretty easily tell a good custom hand made machine from a typical chinese crappy one....

Really? How?

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That was one of the reasons I asked :)

The number one quality about many but NOT ALL good custom built machines that I have noticed is that they have character... one small example is that many machines are engraved dated and numbered by hand....you can almost see the time put into building it... Theres just something about the chinese machine that screams out mass produced crap that I cant put my finger on I think I mainly notice it in the frame. Ive seen the knockoff danny fowlers on ebay and I can see it the frame...not the guts. how do I know that an armature bar is cheaply crafted? Is it in the carelessnes of how the hole is drilled? Or is it the metal its made from?... same go for the springs? Are all springs created equally? Now with coils I wouldnt know where to start because they are shrinkwrapped and I cant see whats going on underneath.

VT

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not to mention machine design is also an art and i personally like the vintage, classic authentic look the most which Ive never seen a cheap machine able to reproduce

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ive gotten away from engraving my machines & moved to stamping them.

yeah, as inks said man the chinese are getting better & better at copying shit, they are now putting the fowler logo on their time machine knock offs & doing the same with sharpz knock offs. Just buy from reputable suppliers & dont sweat it :)

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i can tell you a couple members that have already replied to this topic...can build some of the nicest hand made parts/machines you ever find. reasonably priced and the quality... without question the best and better than you find anywhere. (hint) ;)

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inkspressit- thanks thats basically the type of answer I was looking for.... thanks for the help... I will buy my guts from reputable sources.

Markt4lyf- I hear ya man.... im not looking for an easy way out.... im willing to dish the money out for low-cost machines and gut'em just to get a better idea of the mechanics of machines.... even though they are the ford escorts of tattoo machines... i may get some use outta taking them apart

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i may get some use outta taking them apart

yep taking apart a machine a putting it back together is a good qway of getting to know one.

inkspressit- I feel you on all those crappy qualities you mentioned, but what gets me is more and more reputable machine builders and suppliers are using bobbins on thier coils, and other inferior parts. I just seen a video of a machine being built and the only human hands on it was at the time of assembly and these are fairly high priced machines.

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yep taking apart a machine a putting it back together is a good qway of getting to know one.

inkspressit- I feel you on all those crappy qualities you mentioned, but what gets me is more and more reputable machine builders and suppliers are using bobbins on thier coils, and other inferior parts. I just seen a video of a machine being built and the only human hands on it was at the time of assembly and these are fairly high priced machines.

ya but ofcourse ive taken apart my high quality machines .....i just wouldnt dare experiment with them the same way I would with cheap crap.... Im talking about butchery my friend.... I know that there are a few frames you can use from cheap machines to build high quality ones.... Im not just talking about the bent over frames..... staying away from those is a given.... there have been a few bullldog style ones that arent too shabby.... apparently the geometry and the machining was pretty impressive..... one of the guys at the shop swears by one he rebuilt..... he even said the coils worked GREAT! Feel free to correct me... Im just getting my feet wet with this stuff! I got taught to tattoo in a very unorthodox way which I dont appreciate now.... because I dont know my machines from my ass!!

Lets just say my mentor threw me to the wolves.... and I fucked alot of people up.... now Im kinda fucked because i need to learn the machines on my own..... adjusting, tuning..... all that shit was done for me without explainations..... so here I am giving free tattoos with different settings on each machine .... trial and error till I find my sweet spots....... I realize now though that building/understanding my machines will step up my game as a tattooist 20 fold... If I know why my machine is doing what I will be able to adjust it as I see fit.... for different things...

So this goes to all that have been posting on this thread.. forgive my stupid questions... but Im determined to master my craft and feeling a little bit of shame along the way through asking annoying questions will be very much worth it in the end.... believe me Ive dealt with far worse on my journey of becoming a tattooist.

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soooo gentlemen, what do you guys know about damascus? They look decent and believe they are of chinese origin.

damascus is a combination of alloys that creates the grain that you see in it.

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damascus is a combination of alloys that creates the grain that you see in it.

nice!! i feel stupid!!..... ok well then these 100 dollar machines on eaby I keep seeing with the word "dasascus" in the title... they are probably shit too?

Theres something about them that look funny to me too..

http://cgi.ebay.com/UPS-New-Damascus-Custo...=item58881152e3

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Not all damascus machines are crap, haric uses damascus alot and makes some bad ass pieces a few others here use it once in a while. its just another type of metal that can be used to make a frame.

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Not all damascus machines are crap, haric uses damascus alot and makes some bad ass pieces a few others here use it once in a while. its just another type of metal that can be used to make a frame.

no i meant.. do these look like they are cheap mass produced chinese ones

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yes

use your head just have a look at how many and what hes selling

it really doesnt take a rocket scientist to work it out

Edited by mark101

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Okay, here's a China refresher course. In the last couple of years they...

- Put toxic antifreeze in toothpaste.

- Put industrial solvents in pet food

- Manufactured fake baby formula

- Painted children's toys with lead paint

Now, if these corrupt heartless bastards will willingly cut corners on products that will KILL YOU, what makes you think they're going to be on the straight and narrow with the materials they make a tattoo machine out of? I mean, they'll kill children and babies to make a quick buck, do you really think they give a shit whether they're manufacturing a high quality tattoo machine?

Of course not! Look people, there's a reason you can by a tattoo machine off ebay for $9, and it ain't because it's going to be a valued tool. Use your brains, and stop buying this Chinese crap.

Or don't I guess, and make your job harder on yourself.

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you can tell its chinese cos its made of melted down rusty old cars

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you can tell its chinese cos its made of melted down rusty old cars

The Chinese make there Pantyhose / Tights from old cars as well, my wife got a Pair and there was a Lada in them.................I'll get me coat.P. :lol:

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The Chinese make there Pantyhose / Tights from old cars as well, my wife got a Pair and there was a Lada in them.................I'll get me coat.P. :o

yeah Paul get ya coat ;) , thats an old en

spelling

Edited by buzzbrush

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yep taking apart a machine a putting it back together is a good qway of getting to know one.

inkspressit- I feel you on all those crappy qualities you mentioned, but what gets me is more and more reputable machine builders and suppliers are using bobbins on thier coils, and other inferior parts. I just seen a video of a machine being built and the only human hands on it was at the time of assembly and these are fairly high priced machines.

i just saw a video of workhorse irons machine being mass produced like this,and they use thick cardboard tubes to insulate the cores.i was pretty surprised.here it is,.(they almost seem like bobbins,but arent ofcourse)

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