Jump to content



Flat Magnum Or Stacked

- - - - -

11 replies to this topic

#1
hunter

    Shop Groupie

  • Jr. Member
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
What are the differences between FLAT, MAGNUM or STACKED needles ????
what is the best for shading or applying colors ?????

and for my apprentice i've got always problems with shading , we see too much lines or points of the needles
and when i put colors or dark areas , there's often scars during "cicatrization" , i use 7 or 11 mag and distilled water with witch hazel, my machines are well tuned and i try to not hurt the skin
what's the problem ?


thanks !

#2
shocker

    Ink Slinger

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,687 posts
Firstly,can I assume that english is not your first langauge?I am not criticising or refusing to help,its just that some of your post could be taken the wrong way....please dont be offended :) :)
GENTLEMAN LOSER -- INTERNATIONAL SLUM DOG -- TRAILER TRASH

#3
Stoneface

    Ink Slinger

  • Moderator
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,533 posts
This is just my opinion alone: Stay away from Stacked and Flats....practice with "Weaved Magnums"(M1) on PRACTICE SKIN, FRUIT, PIG SKIN etc...
Are you SURE about your tuning?? :)
As said above "please don't be offended" but it sounds like you're far from ready for human skin. ..unless you're drilling yourself..if so then have at it.
Read often :)

Edited by Stoneface, 24 January 2010 - 04:19 PM.

.........CC/BBP Certs>> .... CLICK HERE .............

"If you ain't livin' on the edge, you're takin' up too much space".

#4
jrf134

    Human Billboard

  • Jr. Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 547 posts
flats,not many like em,magnums and stacked,same thing,but magnums as stonefaced has said,come in three kinds,or actually many depending on needle taper,or bugpins,but they are stacked magnums,weaved magnums,which many prefer over stacked,or weaved ovals or curved magnums,havene't tried curved/ovals,but hear they are great for blending and fades,but different tapers are available from different manufacturers,as the bugpins,if ya can find em,may have to specify your sizes and stuff and have em made for ya,or learn to make your own

#5
jrf134

    Human Billboard

  • Jr. Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 547 posts
and they also make em textured too,so that's anutha kind as well as carbon,but stay away from the carbons,those are usually made by the artist and any kind of residue will cause rust pretty easily,don't know fer sure but don't think you can buy carbons premade anyways,sum say the textured are great for packin solid color or tribals,but can cause more trauma as well,carbons have a slight inherent texture on em but not as traumatic as the textured,or so i've read

Edited by jrf134, 24 January 2010 - 05:44 PM.


#6
jrf134

    Human Billboard

  • Jr. Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 547 posts
also,there are different degrees of needle configurations,tight loose and even then if they are saudered closer to the tip of the needle,it makes em less flexible,if they are saudered further away from the tip they are more flexible and brushlike,so i've read,and tracking can occur if the end needles on a magnum are'nt in line with the other needles but flared out and away from the needles making oblong shaped punctures in the skin,leaving tracks and causing trauma,so the quality of the needles you use makes a difference in the finish,and not having tattooed at all,i'm am giving you info here i have read and sought out and figured out after long hours of reading and studying,i suggest you listen to stoneface and before you hit other's skin,hit your own or piggy,and do sum reading first

#7
jrf134

    Human Billboard

  • Jr. Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 547 posts
i won't answer many posts so directly and detailed,just wanted to show you there is alot to learn before you hit flesh,piggy yes,but skin,this is just some of the stuff you should know before you hit flesh,just think of all the other things that may be missed by not taking the time to read and study,and you got this from someone who hasn't tattooed yet,and ya may or may not get answers from folks who took the time to learn,and from those with actual experience and more knowledge than a newb like me on many other aspects or questions ya have,read read read,it's worth it

#8
Kliff

    Pin Cushion

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 278 posts
this is for cosmetic tattooing but it will probley answer a lot of your questions (you can probley translate it)

http://www.taptatdaddio.com/The%20Tattoo%2...le%20Primer.pdf

#9
Sekzwee

    Shop Groupie

  • Full Member
  • Pip
  • 11 posts

View Posthunter, on Jan 24 2010, 09:36 PM, said:

What are the differences between FLAT, MAGNUM or STACKED needles ????
what is the best for shading or applying colors ?????

and for my apprentice i've got always problems with shading , we see too much lines or points of the needles
and when i put colors or dark areas , there's often scars during "cicatrization" , i use 7 or 11 mag and distilled water with witch hazel, my machines are well tuned and i try to not hurt the skin
what's the problem ?


thanks !

whats best for shading... it's an impossible question to answer tbh. it comes down to experience and personal preference. for instance most tattoo artists dont like flats but i quite like making up gentle curved flats for light grey shading. i like textured weaved mags for colour but many other artists prefer smooth weaved mags. some artists dont use flats or mags at all and stick to using round shaders. practice with various needle groups and machine setups and shading types on your thigh or some pig skin, i've always used my thighs it gives me much better feedback testing on myself(btw, if you tattoo your own thigh dont line anything in black try and test using light colours, this means you can come back later in life and have those test areas covered over, some of my older test bits i have over the years gone back and repeatedly hit them with a covering of white ink until they are so faded i could have them covered without much issue) and pig skin you cant really practice your stretching quite as well and beleive me it's important to have a good stretch.

Tuned is an ambiguous term since you'll require modifications to the initial tuning depending on the needle groups you use and whether your lining, laying in solid colour, shading colour or doing a shaded black & grey piece.

you mention apprentice, i you could explain what you mean by that it might help. are you apprenticed to a shop? or do you have an apprentice and are looking for advice to pass on to him?

#10
MORTAGON

    Pin Cushion

  • Jr. Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 122 posts
For sure the stacked magnum will be hard to use for smooth shading. The single row also is harder to use and nowadays the people are using M1 magnums for shading and probably RM1. If you have lines when shading, probably you have fast machine and slow deep hard movement of the hand. I dont separate the machines to liner and shader, however the longer front spring gives slower motion, try it, also the tension is important. While the tattoo is a form of pointilism, the points density and the point color are between the most important parameters. For example 10000 different greyscale points are better than 1000 strong black points in 1 cm x 1 cm gradation. Im not sure how much point we do exactly, this is just a comparison. Also try to use less pressure in the end of the movement.
On other hand there is a difference between ink to skin color, or ink to ink gradation. Stacked magnum 13M2 and 9RS or 14RS are good to fill with clear colors, but hard for gradations, at least for me. The same if you paint a picture with acrylics and use stacked brush or hairy one, or, if you use too much color with your airbrush or spraying very close or with very high pressure.
First we draw what we think we see.
Then we draw what we know.
Finally, we see what we know.

Robert B. Hale

Buy Me a Beer - PayPal Donation plugin: click here

#11
jrf134

    Human Billboard

  • Jr. Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 547 posts
cheers mortagon maybe it's the language barrier,and maybe yer a heavy drinker while you peruse the site and post most of the time,but you friggen rock man,again cheers

#12
MORTAGON

    Pin Cushion

  • Jr. Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 122 posts

View Postjrf134, on Feb 23 2010, 03:40 AM, said:

cheers mortagon maybe it's the language barrier,and maybe yer a heavy drinker while you peruse the site and post most of the time,but you friggen rock man,again cheers

I accept "heavy drinker" as compliment, thanx bro! I used to drink more when I was younger, nowadays its waste of time for me to drink, so I do it rare (but heavy, also listening to death metal all the time).
The language bareer yeah, if you read my post and "dark beer/light beer/Coronita shading" is written, either Im drunk or out of words in the given language. Im a bulgarian and speaking russian, spanish, english and serbian, plus much words in any from the rest. I even know CHEERZ! in Swede, its SKAL! Swede people = good people, I know many (drinking with them alive and virtually).

I believe one good day all we will use beer based washes and other vegetal solutions instead of chromium, lead and heavy metal oxydes as pigments.

SKAL!
First we draw what we think we see.
Then we draw what we know.
Finally, we see what we know.

Robert B. Hale

Buy Me a Beer - PayPal Donation plugin: click here