[Below The Skin]

I know i have posted this in the members section, so this is for the benefit of the people who have not paid a subcription yet

Hi everyone
I feel i have to put this post on this forum about copyright infringment,
I know there are a few subjects on here about asking for flash of various designs, By sharing this flash/designs around with out the artists writen consent is a copyright infringment, I have in the past have done it and got ill gotten gains from it. I have also felt the wrath of my actions and beleive me it is not very nice, Not only for myself,my family, but also for the original artist, they work very hard indeed to get there artwork out onto the tattoo scene, and MAKE A LIVING FROM IT, Its taking the bread and butter from there mouths ALSO the people who have the legal right to distribute the flash/design sheets. please spare a thought for these people. As i now realise what the actions of swappping flash is doing to these peoples lively hoods, i certainly would not want my income taken away from me by such actions that i have been guilty of in the past. WOULD YOU??
Put it like this a set of genuine flash from a legitimate company cost around £70-£80
a small price to pay for the the price tattoo studio's charge for a tattoo, the set is paid for after one if not two tattoo's, but the set is used over and over again, so really very cheap when you look at it from another angle.
PLEASE TAKE THIS ONBOARD BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO HURT THE TATTOO INDUSTRY THAT WE STRIVE TO SUPPORT AND FOR SOME OF US TRYING TO GET INTO.

[B.M.]

Well said,i see this everyday here locally,someone selling a disk full of flash that they got free from a torrent site instead of actually buying the sheets.

[The Nerd]

i def agree but i dont see where you see flash swapping and stuff .. when here i see people posting links to free flash and thats it ive never seen a copywriten design on this forum unless traced by someone for thier prac and posted .... but i have never seen copywriten material posted here authugh i have had a great deal of people offer me shit in private PMS ( which i never take ) i do belive this is a pretty good forum about copyright infridgment

[johnedward]

The Nerd, on Oct 4 2009, 02:12 PM, said:

i def agree but i dont see where you see flash swapping and stuff .. when here i see people posting links to free flash and thats it ive never seen a copywriten design on this forum unless traced by someone for thier prac and posted .... but i have never seen copywriten material posted here authugh i have had a great deal of people offer me shit in private PMS ( which i never take ) i do belive this is a pretty good forum about copyright infridgment

Artwork does not need a copyright symbol to be covered by copyright law. ALL original artwork, as soon as it is created, is covered. In some countries it is necessary to register the copyright in order to win damages in a lawsuit - but in other countries no registration is needed either. Every time somone sells or swaps artwork which is not of their own creation, or where they do not hold a written licence from the copyright holder to sell or copy, they infringe copyright laws. Damages can be significant for using and/or selling / swapping counterfiet artwork - including tattoo flash.

Tattooist should know that whenever they use artwork that is subject to copyright and they do not have the licence to create a tattoo from it, then they are most likely in breach of someones copyright. For sure when someone asks you to tattoo something they have on a camera phone, if you agree, you've breached copyright laws

Best advice, stick to pure custom - ie original artwork which you hve created totally or significantly from scratch, or use flash which you have bought from the legitimate owner. Expect to pay around $75 - $100 for a decent set of legitimate flash in the USA (75 euro or £75 are about the going rate in europe and GB)- much less than that and it is likely ripped off or wall candy or filing cabinet fodder.

J

This post has been edited by johnedward: 05 October 2009 - 12:16 PM

[xpressiveink]

The Nerd, on Oct 4 2009, 01:12 PM, said:

i def agree but i dont see where you see flash swapping and stuff .. when here i see people posting links to free flash and thats it ive never seen a copywriten design on this forum unless traced by someone for thier prac and posted .... but i have never seen copywriten material posted here authugh i have had a great deal of people offer me shit in private PMS ( which i never take ) i do belive this is a pretty good forum about copyright infridgment

Yes, you have seen copyrighted material posted here and some members go as far as to try sell it on their own website and claim it to be "original". Some here most certainly do trace copyrighted flash, then make minor changes to it, claim that makes it original, then go as far as to list it on their site and try to sell it. You know it and everyone here knows it happens but since none of you are copyright attorneys and none of you have every had your work stolen, you really don't care. I have had work stolen, sued and won in my own business as a professional photographer. As far as artwork is concerned and the courts, the simple facts are that by the act of tracing, you are violating copyright if you intend to modify it and sell it as your own "original" flash, even if you make some changes to it. You don't have to be selling an exact copy of the work for it to be illegal.

Now, if we are talking about people who actually buy the flash and use it to tattoo people, that is not a violation. That is what the artists sell their work for. But the simple facts are that if you think you can trace something, make a change to it and then claim it as your own "original" artwork and sell it - well I hope you get caught and run through the courts. It's theft, plain and simple.

[Joe Sleepy]

xpressiveink, on Oct 6 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

Yes, you have seen copyrighted material posted here and some members go as far as to try sell it on their own website and claim it to be "original". Some here most certainly do trace copyrighted flash, then make minor changes to it, claim that makes it original, then go as far as to list it on their site and try to sell it. You know it and everyone here knows it happens but since none of you are copyright attorneys and none of you have every had your work stolen, you really don't care. I have had work stolen, sued and won in my own business as a professional photographer. As far as artwork is concerned and the courts, the simple facts are that by the act of tracing, you are violating copyright if you intend to modify it and sell it as your own "original" flash, even if you make some changes to it. You don't have to be selling an exact copy of the work for it to be illegal.

Now, if we are talking about people who actually buy the flash and use it to tattoo people, that is not a violation. That is what the artists sell their work for. But the simple facts are that if you think you can trace something, make a change to it and then claim it as your own "original" artwork and sell it - well I hope you get caught and run through the courts. It's theft, plain and simple.

Are you impaired in some way.?.. Nice rant, much of which is unsubstantiated bullshit. You have absolutely no way of knowing how many of the members here (there are thousands) have had there intellectual property stolen. I have for one. We try our damnedest to keep copyright infringement off of this site, banning anyone caught doing it. The copyright laws are different in every jurisdiction, that said it is pretty easy to understand what does & what does not constitute theft. Tracing historical flash is the backbone of tattooing. It is the bedrock on which the industry is built. If you have examples of members here stealing flash & selling it (regardless of it being on this site or any other) let a Mod know. From the tone of your post you obviously have many examples & so I &/or the other Mods await the flood of PMs....

By the way, where did you get the reference for the vampire face that you copied.?..
Do you believe that by not tracing it but attempting to copy it exactly that you are the original artist.?..
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2647/377303...f870bca95_o.jpg
The Hellboy character, is that your intellectual property.?, Or the property of the guy who took the original photograph you copied, or the guy who designed the comic book character, or the guy who made the costume, or the film company, or the actor wearing it..?.... The fact is, you are not a copyright attorney either. Stealing is bad, we try as hard as we can to keep it off of this site. End of story...

[xpressiveink]

and there's a big damned difference between drawing for practice and drawing to sell. I don't sell my drawings, but you know there are people on here that do post their "flash" for sale on their personal sights and they do trace and steal then call it original cause they made "changes". of course that's different cause they are heavy posters. Good try, but you failed. I never said a damned thing about people practicing, but you apparently choose to ignore what was written.

[Joe Sleepy]

Good try.?..
Tell me the names of the "heavy posters"(.?..!?) who are
stealing other peoples work & I will deal with it personally.

My issue with you is this statement:

since none of you are copyright attorneys and none of you have every had your work stolen, you really don't care.

I'm not getting into a battle with you. You posted a load of ill considered, over generalising crap.
I cannot abide theft of any kind, there is ALWAYS a victim. That said I hate jailhouse lawyers who
think they can make sweeping statements and everyone will take note. Copyright does not always
pass to the estate, is not in perpetuity & varies dramatically in it's reach across the globe.

[supernummy]

I have had my work stolen, and copied. So I guess you should shut the fuck up.

[jrf134]

i only steal when i think nobodies lookin,lol,man this got ugly fast,i have had my portfolio stolen and stuff copied and hell even a complete comic book set-up, did all the work and tha damn colorist forked it over to the publisher without gettin the check from the a-hole,but if your work is good,it's more than likely gonna get used,and with the internet and all,it's gonna happen more and more,either ya face the facts and get ready to do battle in courtrooms,or ya just live unda a rock and lock yer stuff away from the world,or just accept it,keep doing your high quality work and have the right to call em a bunch of thievin no talent hacks,if your stuff sucks then i guess you probably won't have to worry bout it,look at cain's machines fer example,his stuff gets copied and cloned all the time,but the original quality sn't there,the craftsmenship isn't their and his name isn't on it so it's worthless in truth,if your good ad well known and have a following,peeps are gonna know yer work and know the difference between copies and fakes and true works of genious created by the originator,and it will be held against those by others who can tell the difference

[jrf134]

oh and supernummy made me remember an old robin williams stand-up,,,,a new york echo,,,HELLLLOOOOOOoooo.........................................................
.SHUT THE FUCK UPP.LOL

[inkling]

so what about when customers ask for a piece containing a logo or character in it? you mean to tell me tattoo shops pay licensing fees to mlb, nfl, nba, marvel comics, mgm, etc... ? i would say upwards of a quarter of the tats you see in tattoo mag are of some kind of character; and i know i get lots of requests of sports team logos and such. how does this work? it seems like people would probably do it but would refain from posting or sending to a mag, but that is hardly the case.

[ink-sink]

its just another P.C mad load of bull if you ask me if we delved in to every copyright law and looked on it from every angle we'd probably discover there is no image that can be tattooed without infringement somewhere

i mean even if you - lets say drew a tiger - googled a couple images of tigers for ideas - thats two photo's you got from google - and therefor breech copyright of the original owner

im pretty sure nobody here would have the time to go visiting zoo's and sitting for hours trying to get the shot they need - like - hmm i need a photo of a mad snarling tiger - perhaps if i throw this rock at its testicles that should piss it off enough for the shot lmao

laws are there for a reason - this is agreed up on but all laws and rules are bent somewhat to a degree - if they werent wed all be in breech of the law everyday - its just how fucked up the government is in writing them, then you get the thousands of people sueing each other because this world turned into this daft place where its a kinda fashion to sue everybody for everything they can

see it on TV everyday - had a trip or slip at work or at home? injury wasnt your fault? you could be entitled to compensation - call accident r us on ....... - NO JUST WATCH WHERE YOUR GOING AND DONT BE SUCH A CLUMSY TWAT

[jrf134]

inkling, on Oct 6 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

so what about when customers ask for a piece containing a logo or character in it? you mean to tell me tattoo shops pay licensing fees to mlb, nfl, nba, marvel comics, mgm, etc... ? i would say upwards of a quarter of the tats you see in tattoo mag are of some kind of character; and i know i get lots of requests of sports team logos and such. how does this work? it seems like people would probably do it but would refain from posting or sending to a mag, but that is hardly the case.

i think you could maybe call it advertising space and get paid for the endorsement,ima gunna call nike now,lol,wouldn't that be funny,gettin paid each month for being tattooed,haha