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Spring Issue |
  Oct 31 2009, 03:18 AM
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#1
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Just wanted to post this to see if i could learn anything about the whys and hows on springs breaking, its not rocket science but i could be missing something that could cause this.
i was redoing a tribal piece for a my brother as it was quite faded, half way through i noticed that the 7Mag m1 was snagging his skin, i did check the mag with a loupe before hand so i knew there were no bent needles, none the less i changed out the mag for a new one and still the same thing.......... as i was wondering why this was happening , all my tuning aspects were spot on , i stuck my thumb on the grommet to see how it was hittting and bang she threw the towl in and the back spring cracked in half....happy days ! its a forgiven shader , it has run perfectly in the past ..no issues what i did notice is that the spring shelf (frame) is not perfectly straight and the same with my liner, ( both the frames i think are from the same cast) and that the crack or rather the break is the exact same curvature of the non stright part of the spring deck. im not doubting Forgiven at all, but some things do go wrong some of the time and if its a user or fabrication issue i would like to know the fix or ways to avoid the problem in the future A: could this be purely a casting issue and the slightly off angle will always put stress on the spring ? b: could it be a bad batch of springs ? c: could this be user related and i have done something in error causing this to break ? i know i can just change the back sping for a new one ( which are on the way ) and forget about the fiasco.....but i would like to gain a little insight into springs and what can cause stress etc.. Cracked spring  Shelf Angle  Aligned back spring to deck ( see the same curvature match)  |
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Oct 31 2009, 04:56 AM
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#2
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QUOTE (Teo @ Oct 31 2009, 09:18 PM)  Aligned back spring to deck ( see the same curvature match) Did the armature bar ever line up on that machine? If that is exactly where the spring was situated when it snapped, it certainly looks like it's on a hell of an angle? EDIT : After closer inspection of your pics, the spring was on backwards anyway. This post has been edited by ElDubya: Oct 31 2009, 04:58 AM -------------------- If at first you don't succeed ......... maybe skydiving is not for you.
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Oct 31 2009, 05:35 AM
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#3
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Is this the ugly head of the bad metal spring batch recently infecting the US rearing its head again?If so,there have been reports that Eikon have had it too.....
....soooo,maybe as a first step,pro tem,until someone who knows what they are talking about (ie not me) weighs in,try a euro or UK spring like Wildangel...see if the problem goes away -------------------- GENTLEMAN LOSER -- INTERNATIONAL SLUM DOG -- ON A FARM
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Oct 31 2009, 05:44 AM
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#4
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i think the broken bit moved ever so slightly when taking a picture, thus looking like its at an angle.......if you look at the second pic showing the deck ang you can see its not straight ...not by a long shot....
The Abar did line up on the machine, i have a jig and alighn tool so thats not the issue here....rather the stress being put on the back spring as confirmed by another member on here via pm , my initial thoughts seem correct....that the stress is being caused by an uneven deck.... it seems i am going to have to file both frames down to get an even spring deck......  ......i will get in touch with forgiven and see what he thinks .... seems a bloody shame if i do have to file them down..i paid quite a pretty penny for them !! but if anyone has any other thoughts or sugesstions please post them , any and all thoughts are much apreciated... |
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Oct 31 2009, 05:46 AM
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#5
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I sometimes turn the spring around and use the longer to-the-front. That way I can make support bends(risers) up front eliminating the need for a cockring.
........with Eldubys on the alignment... it seems possible that your armbar may have veered off a tad...therefore snapping the spring....especially if that's a long stroker. 2cents -------------------- If you ain't livin' on the edge, you're takin' up too much space.
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Oct 31 2009, 05:47 AM
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#6
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QUOTE (shocker @ Oct 31 2009, 02:35 PM) Is this the ugly head of the bad metal spring batch recently infecting the US rearing its head again?If so,there have been reports that Eikon have had it too..... ....soooo,maybe as a first step,pro tem,until someone who knows what they are talking about (ie not me) weighs in,try a euro or UK spring like Wildangel...see if the problem goes away i pray to fuck its a spring issue man !!! tony from island has cut me a 16 set and am going to try them before i do anything drastic ! ......but it does seem coincedental that the spring snapped in the same line as the eneven spring deck... i dunno ....lets see what the educated masses say |
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Oct 31 2009, 05:54 AM
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#7
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QUOTE (Stoneface @ Oct 31 2009, 02:46 PM) I sometimes turn the spring around and use the longer to-the-front. That way I can make support bends(risers) up front eliminating the need for a cockring. ........with Eldubys on the alignment... it seems possible that your armbar may have veered off a tad...therefore snapping the spring....especially if that's a long stroker. 2cents yeah i hear you on the A bar moving slightly , but i am 100% sure it didnt ...while i was checking the tuning mid tattoo everything was 100% .....then it snapped so im pretty sure theres somethinf else going down. could you post a pic of what you doing with the support bends (riser) ? if the deck was eneven would this sort out the issue and avoid cracking the spring ? |
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Oct 31 2009, 04:49 PM
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#8
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 That's only a real quick assessment, but it looks bent to me. I would say get the file out and fix it. Not the first time something like this has happened though. I seem to recall another machine that had at least 6 fatal flaws in it from delivery. And I can 2 in this machine just from that photo. This post has been edited by ElDubya: Oct 31 2009, 04:50 PM -------------------- If at first you don't succeed ......... maybe skydiving is not for you.
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Oct 31 2009, 09:09 PM
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#9
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QUOTE (Teo @ Oct 31 2009, 05:54 AM) could you post a pic of what you doing with the support bends (riser) ? if the deck was eneven would this sort out the issue and avoid cracking the spring ? At the moment I have plenty of o'rings so none of my current set-ups are like that or I'd get a pic 4 ya. ...not sure if I understand but... what I was describing above wouldn't be a "fix" for ya or anything. ...It is a slight upward bend in the forward tabs of the rear spring...just an old manuver if you don't have an o'ring/don't like an o'ring but want to tighten up your flim-flam. On some spring types...ya gotta turn the rear spring around backwards(shallow tabs to rear) to be able to make the bends(have egnough tab TO bend so-to-speak)... I thought that maybe why(in your photo)...the spring is backwards(shallow tabs to rear) but looking back at your photos I don't see any bends in the spring. At any rate... hope ya gett'er lined out. -------------------- If you ain't livin' on the edge, you're takin' up too much space.
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Nov 1 2009, 02:25 AM
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#10
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QUOTE (ElDubya @ Nov 1 2009, 01:49 AM) That's only a real quick assessment, but it looks bent to me. I would say get the file out and fix it. Not the first time something like this has happened though. I seem to recall another machine that had at least 6 fatal flaws in it from delivery. And I can 2 in this machine just from that photo. yeah i see what you mean but no, the piece moved while taking the pic...it was perfectly aligned when on the frame..... im still convinced its a band geometry issue, what other flaws did you notice with the frame ? i hate to know but i have my suspiscions on a few fatal flaws on the frame......JOY ! |
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Nov 7 2009, 04:15 PM
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#11
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when the machine was running the the spring connected was there a lot of "bounce back"??
-------------------- Screw The Rent! Get A Tattoo!
GetInked.com AIM: shortdoggitc Yahoo Messenger: badboytat2s My Ebay Store Disposable tips, needles, tubes, DVD's, PS2 Games listed Visit My Site www.myspace.com/alkqnthug |
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Nov 8 2009, 03:15 AM
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#12
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QUOTE (Bad Boy @ Nov 8 2009, 01:15 AM) when the machine was running the the spring connected was there a lot of "bounce back"?? not quite sure what you mean by bounce back bro ?....... |
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Dec 14 2009, 03:21 PM
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#13
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i know it's an old post. however, if the spring has any type of grain in it as does some of the stock i have at work, then check to see if it runs the long way on the spring. if it's running the short way then maybe it's giving the spring a weak point to break. mass produced springs are normally done in a stamping house where they stamp out the part all at once, if they put the stock in the punch press the wrong way then your grain is going to be the wrong way. or maybe it's something else.
-------------------- " he who masturbates with peanut butter is fucking nuts "
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Dec 15 2009, 02:32 AM
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#14
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hey jremy, i had a look at the cracked spring....to my eye it looks as if the grain is running the full length of the spring.... i have recently got a new back spring (eikon) and will run it for a few hours unloaded to see if it happens again...still not 100% sure as to why it cracked in the first place....
at first i thought it was a geometry issue but my liner from the same cast has yet to give me problems and runs perfectly... could be a case of a dud back spring....il do the dry run on the new spring and if the same thing happens...same place then i know its a bad frame issue.. on a side not to whoever is taking a look at this thread..if you see the pics at the top of the post my contact post and contact screw is at a slight angle....looking from the back of the frame down the saddle screw and A bar screws it juts ever so slightly to the right..... i have tried using different washers to compensate and many different things no luck.....any ideas on the cause damn im getting fed up with this shader guys ! This post has been edited by Teo: Dec 15 2009, 02:33 AM |
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Dec 15 2009, 06:27 AM
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#15
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...You probably know this 'already but..............really......as long as your back-spring and abar are aligned with each other.....and those are aligned with center of tube.....then your front spring CAN be on its own, (off either way a little).
-------------------- If you ain't livin' on the edge, you're takin' up too much space.
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Dec 15 2009, 06:49 AM
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#16
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I'm surprised Andy (Forgiven) hasn't posted on this as it's one of his machines in question.
Hmmm maybe try sending him a pm would get you somewhere. -------------------- |
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Dec 15 2009, 08:19 AM
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#17
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QUOTE (Stoneface @ Dec 15 2009, 03:27 PM) ...You probably know this 'already but..............really......as long as your back-spring and abar are aligned with each other.....and those are aligned with center of tube.....then your front spring CAN be on its own, (off either way a little). its the contact screw binding post and the contact screw thats angled to the right and not centred... yeah i pmed forgiven a while back when it happened,told him about it....he told me he would sort me out a new back spring...still waiting jsut running through possibilities with you guys....so i can learn as well |
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Dec 15 2009, 08:42 AM
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#18
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Is the binder at 90degrees to the frame upright?Is the contact screw parallel to the upright?You may have to fiddle around a bit (and dont quote me out of context,stoney!) to get it in a position to tell.....do you have a right angle try-square?
-------------------- GENTLEMAN LOSER -- INTERNATIONAL SLUM DOG -- ON A FARM
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Dec 15 2009, 08:51 AM
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#19
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im going to have a fiddle......
then il try see if i can correct the angle on the front binding post and contact screw...will post soem pics in 20 |
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Dec 15 2009, 10:03 AM
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#20
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Dont go trying to straighten anything yet....just tell us whats doing
-------------------- GENTLEMAN LOSER -- INTERNATIONAL SLUM DOG -- ON A FARM
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