I think u need to start your own blog with this shit, and see a psychiatrist, it aint that serious, dogs. U went off the deep end with this...

You should know this is serious for some guys when we talk gang relative things. Hell... People are even ready to give their live for their gang. That is real wicked thing! I'm not one of those kind, but i know they exist. I have one motorcycling neighbour who is ready to ride and die for him principles... And you don't like to fucking around with them... When they are serious that is snowball what easily start to grow and get messy if you don't give respect to them... You clearly don't give respect for me, but i'm ok with that... I can forgive for you.

If you wear gangster shit you should know what you can get if you are unlucky punk... Even if this is not so serious for you that don't matter when that one serious guy get mad when someone fooling around like a gangster but don't be one (and even don't give any respect to them.) I have seen that happen, that aint so nice thing to look when some fool cry for him mummy... and i don't even live in Brooklyn.
I have seen when some little criminal get mad when someone start to shout threat for him. Criminal give some warning and that poor guy didn't believe that criminal was serious... Next thing was when criminal hit that poor guy around the floor and leave him to bleed... then was too late to ask to forgive.

And what make you think i should go to see psychiatrist? Because i say if there is some meaning don't wear it if you don't stand for it? Even if there is no any ranking marks they are relative to criminals and their world and you should know what can happen if you are in wrong place in wrong time...
If you are not one, or not stand for their rules, you still can sell it, but people who wear it can get trouble because they don't give respect or stand for the meaning. I think people playing with fire when they cross that line.
I know this is crazy, but still there is some reason to be aware... Some gang members are real deep in their shit and some guys just don't relax... Most gangster here are nice to normal people, but some punk expect that you should give your respect to them or they will kick you ass back to the moon.

Here some rich kid's are watchin some c-walk on youtube and know remotely crips and bloods... Those gangs don't exist in here so some 10-14 year old kids can wear only blue or red (or first day blue and next day red) and rap shit like "bloods forever, crips never..." it is safe thing to do here, but what when they go some country where those gangs exist? Little 10 year old "Chriss the rapper" can be in trouble even if he don't take it so seriously. Some gangster see what color that kid wear and how he act and that get gangster go mad and that is all what it maybe only needs...

Russian criminal tattoos and that world is intresting indeed and there is nothing harm to study what it is... We even can talk about it.
Only thing what bother me is when people wear criminal relative things and say they don't be so serious and they fooling around and don't give any respect and in same time some gangster say you only left gang when you are dead and you are brothers forever etc... You dont' have to give respect, but then i asume too you don't wear things what you don't respect...

I don't make my own blog because this topic was for criminal relative discussion and people who are intrested for criminal tattoos and i think this belong to here...
I only start to tell that there is some trouble when there is differend kind of subcultures what stand for differend rules and that way you can earn some tattoos when someone else think you can't wear that tattoo... That is trouble in criminal/bad world... You can tattoo "SS" because you earned them and next thing is when some big ugly skinhead tell to you that you should file that off or he will file it for you... that why you always should think first what something mean and next what it look like... If you do it another way you should atleast know what can happen and understand it. Take responsibility what come with meaning what you wear.
You even can't wear hemp leaf and "legalize it" text in you shirt if you don't stand for it because everyone else asume that you stand for what your shirt says...
Next thing is that you tell to me i should go to see doctor, you live on brooklyn and you real know the gangs better than anyone else... what the hell man you are talking about? I only try to tell you what can happen if you wear gang relative clothes and fucking around and don't give any respect to gangsters subworld... The guys who are in deep end of that pool.

Yeah i'm sorry about this what i'm talking about... I'm near to got killed couple times. That aint pretty thing i can tell you when someone try to hit you with a sledgehammer or cut you with a knife. After that you know that some gangster's can be serious and you should give respect to them or they can put you in situation where you have to fight or get serious beating... I choose fight and i have fight a lot.. Some guys just freeze in that situation and that is bad okay? Maybe my brain are soft for now, but i don't like to anyone have to go through that situation what can happen... it is better play safe way.

Lol you said you wanted a discussion then when you get one you're sending people to get help

Oooh, you mean a discussion that helps you get sales, right?

Yeah that i believe... We should only praise the work. We could do it, but there is another side about dressing too... And only thing what i tried is ask that if you wear some criminal relate clothes, you stand for it because even if criminal's don't care, some normal guy can hate gang relative things very very (believe when i say this: ) very much and start to fight...
So at least wearer get fight for some reason what he himself believe... If you act you should take responsibility because you maybe don't have change to run or skills to fight or change to tell that you are really good guy even if you look like bad ass.

And those meanings... Always first come meaning. You don't wear pink gaypride rainbow-shirt if you hate gays... even if that is realy nice rainbow, you will skip it because you know that meaning. And still if you wear that shirt and you hate gays, you should know that some guys hate gays too and can start to messing with you because you wear a gay t-shirt.
Even if you told "i'm not gay, i wear this because there is real nice colors" you still look like something else and that is what matter much more than what you say... Communication is much more than only words...

No I mean a discussion about Russian Criminal Tattoos, meanings, sharing pics, facts, stuff like that. This guy is going of the deep end. U can claim to be John Fucking Gotti on the internet. Thats the beauty of it. I just dont see the point of this sort of conversation unless its face to face.

I replied to his post on the first page but I will do it again. I am Russian, I have lived in Russia, I now live in a Russian part of Brooklyn NY. My father and my uncle both did time in Russia. I will not go into what I have done or where and when (internet claims of fame are pointless and i'm trying not to be hypocritical). All I will say is that I dont talk about or debate things that I dont know about.

People in my neighborhood (Russian and American) have bought and wear my shirts. "Serious" people that I know in the neighborhood, have seen my shirts, they havent bought any, but they thought it was a cool idea.

I have sold this line to various people all over the world but so far its only to people that are looking for this type of a line. That is due to lack of Advertising. That is why I am trying to advertise now, to let people that are not into the subject that much to maybe get into and check out this art an the people behind it.

That is all. I also wanted to discuss Russian Criminal Tattoos with people that are interested in it. That is all. That is the 2 reasons for this thread.

Henbane stated his opinion I answered with mine. He keeps going with this nonsense, trying to come off as a tough guy. IT IS NOT THAT SERIOUS.

I WOULDNT WANT PEOPLE TO WEAR STUFF THAT I WOULDNT WEAR MYSELF.

True,

But again, it is not that serious. Its a T-shirt, and again the Tattoos are not status tattoos and are from the 50's and 60's. I cant control who wears the shit. Yes, I made the line because thats what I'm interested in, but also because I'm hoping it will be a success and make money. I doubt it will make me rich, but its still something I wanted to do.

I decided to to post on here because people that are into tattoos know about this art and may be interested. I didnt go on the Lil' Wayne Forum and start this thread because that is not the type of demographic that I see fit for this. But I cant contol it if some of those people want to buy a shirt or whatever.

Regardless, I can honestly say that theres no danger in wearing this stuff, i mean u can believe me or not, its up to u, no one is making u buy one.

you notice you mock me again mir? that aint so nice for you after all... you hurt my feelings. That was so mean for you!
I don't try to be tough, i only say tough and mad guy exist who are criminals when you play to be one. I really can't know if you have lived in Russian... that is thing what we should talk face to face like you said...
I only said i have seen tough guys. I'm only guy who have soft brains and sensitive heart.

Edit: you made second post too... Believe or not when i say this: There is things what you should know (and somethign what you should be aware) when you wear criminal relative stuff...

Edit 2: Hell... you even don't wear that gay pride t-shirt if you don't support to be gay and you don't wear pentagram only because it look cool... meaning is important.

This post has been edited by Henbane: Nov 3 2009, 09:04 AM

I agree with you on that. But I cant control who buys the stuff. Most people who buy it, do have an interest in the subject, and share some kind of correlation with the meanings of the tattoos. But ultimately some people are gonna buy it cause it looks cool (same with some peoples choices for tattoos). Will they be in danger? I dont think so.

I mock u because u started going on about all this off-the-wall shit. About u beating up dudes and u getting fucked with whatever reason. Theres no need for going on about this in a public forum. U stated what u thought might be a problem with these type of designs, I told u my reasons for believing that its not, Thats it. Done.

Relax, buy a shirt and if anyone messes with u just give me a call and I'll take care of it, ok? =)

and yes, Ya tebe do etogo skazal shto ya Rusky. I sprosil esli ti Russky.

Where are u from?

I don't believe you can handle that kind of problem really because now you act like a real gangsta when you start to play like a big guy who take care of it... You really can handle it if someone in Russian or Estonia get trouble because they wear some criminal shit and get beated? I think we should see face to face before i can tell if you can handle this kind of situation's huh?



I told what is my past because i know there can be problem when you wear something criminal shit or gang relative shit. You know... criminals are criminals. They do crimes... They are pretty much same in every country. That why i don't talk only russian criminals, i talk also street gangs... They all are criminals and do crimes.
I have seen some criminals and i know what some guys are ready to make only because you hurt them reputation. I have seen it but you don't have to believe me, i dont lose anything. It really don't be so big thing.
I don't try to say that everyone get beated because they wear criminal/gang relative stuff, but someone can get trouble... I have seen what violence can bee... Here people drink a lot and here is much of violence behaviour because of that. Everyone who know my homeland will know that and no doub it!

You know, you can maybe talk russian, but you act like pure american... you have lose your roots. It don't matter, i won't get any tougher if i would talk russian too... My roots are from russian, but i'm from next to russian. I can take a train from here to Moscow and it cost me something like 100-140 us dollar... i origin from Karelia, but don't live there anymore. Ofcourse i live near, but not there.
Here are some serious criminals and they don't talk about what they do... you can only read in newspaper when someone get caught. There is some smaler criminals who act like big deal and talk everything for their friends... There are also some ex-criminals who openly talk about their crimes because they don't do it anymore. There are a lot of different kind of guys!
In old days here was only we, estonian and russian, or ryssät as we call them. Now here are some other guys too and criminal cene have changed a lot. In old days people just (little bit sell or use drugs,) sell stolen item's and was drunk and beat each other most of time... Now here are some guys who commit a rape, who pick pocket and who act like they are big gangsters and if you step on their toes, they will punish you. That is sad thing.
Even if most criminal just like to do business, some still like to get bad reputation and those are what you should aware because you can easily get beated. It can start even so small thing that what you wear. This should only be little point what i liked to say, but things get bigger and bigger. I really didn't mean that. I really liked to say too that if there is meaning, you should know it and stand for it because you don't wear cannabis t-shirt if you are against of cannabis. You shouldn't use meaningful things what you hate are what you are not in to.

I can leave this topic now because this really don't go anywhere and we both look like a jerk if we continue this (we both allready look like a jerk, but i don't have any reputation what to lose.) You believe what you believe, you can mock me so much what you like, but that don't really change anything... I have seen what i have seen and you don't have to believe me and i don't have to believe your stories.
I only say meaning is important. It will get less important because some ignorant wannabes use those symbols and tattoos... I alway say meaning is more important than what it look like! and yes before you ask: If some symbol look shitty shatty and there is some real important meaning after that, i'm ready to tattoo that on me only because i stand for it. I know many other's do also so... Everyone who take something and say "meaning is not important" look little bit silly for my kind of people... Why wear it if not stand for it? And all what i was trying to say is some guys can be very serious when they see that...

I can leave this topic too because you don't like to talk criminals and what they can be... You just start to tell i play like a tough guy and you real are one. So now on you can praise your work and tell how cool is wear those russian criminal relate pictures, because it make you look like a real ganster himself.
I promise i don't reply this topic anymore even if someone ask me to do so... You can keep your sandbox all by yourself. "let the baby keep the bottle" like Homer said to Bart.
You know you can trust my promises... I don't promise much, but i'll keep them. I don't talk shitty shatty. Harashoo!

This post has been edited by Henbane: Nov 3 2009, 10:45 AM

BABELFISH.YAHOO.COM

Because I'm all out of aspirin.

+1

What is wrong with this cat?

Are u serious with this:





Hey, my man, u dont need a psychiatrist, u need a whole team of them working round the clock.

U dont know what the hell youre talking about. U are all over the place. No one is a tough guy here, especially not you. Well, actually the thing is that here anyone can be a tough guy.

...and i dont trust your promise, i know u will post again

It's hard enough to assure your tone is read correctly on a forum. Tones/ intentions can get misconstrued when you factor in people from all over the globe, using different slangs, and languages. I think tones were misread here. I don't know much of anything about the symbolism of this stuff, but from what I see, and from what MIR is stating, all gang related symbolism has been intentionally left out for the specific purpose of not getting some midwestern American tourist shanked in the middle of Moscow. I'd wear these shirts, no prob.

Thank you and I agree, its hard to get the tone across when typing.

But did he really think that if he somehow was arrested in Moscow and while wearing my shirt, had to go to jail and got into trouble with some of the boys inside, that he could give me a call and I would sort it out. Cmon, thats not tone, thats common sense.

I think i answered the first reply quite adeqately and without sarcasm or wisecracks. But when nonsense keeps on being spewed, it gets appropriate responses.

...i see henbanes point... you wouldn't wear a biker club shirt if you weren't one... my 2cents

I think thats a little different. Those proclaim u to be part of a gang or a set, they can even say rank and all that I think. I specifically stayed away from that type of stuff. This is a form of art that has been popularized since the three books came out and the movies and the documentaries.


I'm sorry thats how u feel, but it is what it is.


I did a little video slideshow for the line,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elc1UaVi-BE



This post has been edited by MIR: Nov 3 2009, 07:07 PM

i kinda see henbanes points aswell,salesman pushing a product of notorious intent without the knowledgeof how they may be viewed by those invested in the actual darker side behind the images,yes many have shown books,made movies,but they showed the reality behind them,the meanings and what the true brutal aspects are of the earned right to bear these images,and it is a film to show them and unveil them for what they are for those who don't know,and a book to learn and gain knowledge by someone who showed the truth behind them as well,maybe yours are just on the outer edges of a fine line,but who's to say how they will be viewed by someone who may have earned the right to wear the genuine article,i wouldn't try wearing any colors in certain places as their meanings may lead to me seen as insulting those who know the difference and think of how you may be viewed by trying to profit off of it by the genuine owners of them,seems kinda like inviting disaster,i wouldn't walk through gang territories wearing the very image of their status as a really cool way of emulating them without expecting a beating or worse,seems kinda foolish,i know hey man it's just a shirt .....but whose to say,.....you.....or them

Where is this profit u speak off? I hope to see it soon. Do I really come off like a salesman trying to push my product. If thats what u think then u must be reading everything but my posts.

How can u say that I have no knowledge of how my shirts would be viewed? I think u should reread the thread again and not just herbanes posts.

Once again, these are old tattoos, this is an era that has gone by and is dissapearing slowly but surely. The stigma of these tattoos is gone. This line is a commemoration of the art, that era and principles. Of which the main one was, "Live by your own rules" "Never kneel down before anyone" "Be true to yourself and your brothers" "Fuck the government" . The basis for all tattoos was anit-authority. And that is how they would look at the shirts as just another middle Finger pointed at the authorities and the administration.

Come on man, really? You started this thread for the sole purpose of getting exposure for your clothing line. You're not here to contribute to any other aspect of this forum other than promoting your line. PERIOD. I'm sure you get a lot of gratification out of others being educated on the history. Admiring and praising this art you're so fond of. But to say you can't believe you're viewed on here as a salesman pushing your product, especially after you randomly added a you tube slideshow with nothing more than pics of your shirts, is ridiculous. To say that your not aggressively pitching is kind of an insult to peoples' intelligence. It is what it is man. This type of sales pitching never, ever flies here. Why the Mods and especially the owner are allowing it, is because of how deep rooted the art is in tattooing history. If this was any other type of pitch, it would have been deleted long ago. You slid in on a technicality that tugged on the forum owners heartstrings with his love for the old shit. Enjoy the exposure here while it lasts. Anything to keep this thread alive should be a good thing for you regardless of how you're viewed by the forum members.

Did u like the video? =) I was bored at work. I didnt want to use actual pics of the cons cause its 2 diff things.

I guess, yea I started this thread to help promote the stuff, times are a bit tough. What i meant is, do I come off as some guy that just saw these tats or pics and thought, hey these might be cool to make shirts out of. I have had a long connection with this stuff, and know quite a bit about it. I thought there would be people on this forum that are into this, but...

I will contribute more though, I work in a pretty succesful tattoo shop in NYC, so I think I might have some input. Just kinda busy with this shirt stuff right now.

relax mate... the shirts are cool lookin. Don't be so defensive. I think henbane was just trying to say if you wore a shirt like that in certain countries you're liable to get your head kicked in and people should be aware... thats all. Personally i like the designs to and own those type of books... all the best with it