Post removed by J.D.

The stuff in the post I just deleted can be linked in your signature or banner. If you decide to embrace this forum and contribute regularly, then your links will be displayed every time you post. If you're a one time spammer, then I was right to remove the spam on this thread.

This post has been edited by J.D.: Oct 27 2009, 02:30 PM

self promotion .. blah delete ...

Removed by J.D.

Have you read the forum rules at all?

Whats the problem now?

Clicky

I know there's some interesting history and stuff but still....


??

Still what?

There's loads of interesting history and cool info and pics surrounding this subject and if anyone want to discuss it, thats what this thread can be for. If not then it will keep moving down the page until it disappears into the abyss=)))

I'm really not trying to be a dick here man, but this forum tries very hard to emphasize safety and cleanliness in regards to tattooing. This forum gets a bad rap because it's free to all to read and contribute regardless of how they are learning. Meaning there are a lot of self teachers here. Any mention of prison style tattoos, such as the methods you just described are frowned upon here. I know it seems ridiculous to think someone would even consider utilizing the methods you just mentioned to get a tattoo, but there are a lot of ridiculous personalities out there. I'm sorry good sir, but I removed your post again, and will be placing your website and banner up for serious consideration in regards to whether or not this type of tattoo art should be linked here. I have both of your posts saved, and the Moderators will discuss whether we should put it all back the way it originally was, or delete your thread all together. Once again, I apologize, as I have a great deal of respect for the history of this type of tattooing, but can't condone prison style application, or blatant spamming here.

Wow, is it that serious, bro? Cmon, who seriously will go and mix urine and boot soot to make ink? I manage a tattoo shop in NYC and even the slowest artist we have never suggested he would want to try that, and he's not the brightest bulb in the pack.

Fine, the first post was spammish I get it, ur right. So I changed it up, into a discussion that people who are into this form of art can have. Or maybe someone can find out about it in this thread. Its a subject that i know well and I'm really into it. I thought this was a tattoo forum. This form of tattooing is one of the oldest and inspired a lot of the tats that u see nowadays. I thought this was a good subject for discussion in a tattoo forum. Yes, I put my little banner there to help with my clothing line, but hey i gotta eat, u know. Its not like I spammed and left, I'm up for a discussion=)))

It's not the urine, it's the tools.

If you manage a tattoo shop, then you know how much self taught tattooing is frowned upon by professionals. This forum needs to be extra diligent about what's posted here. You'd be surprised at what kind of "light bulbs" I've seen come through here. The forum is an internet forum and therefore accessible to minors. You give a minor who wants a home made tattoo an idea that doesn't involve buying anything, and chances are that minor's gonna do it. This forum won't be a part of that.

Be patient, topic closed. And please refrain from starting another thread regarding this topic. I have the option to delete your posts, take down your banner, and suspend your account from further posting. It's out of the respect for this pioneered art that I haven't done so already.

Thanks for your patience good sir.

I love your site. And think your shirts are fucking cool. As far as I can tell, your link has no mention of how the old style prison tattoos were applied, so as far as the Mod team is concerned, your link and banner is all good.

How about just refraining from mentioning any tools or methods that were used back then, and we can be free to talk about the wicked cool art, and history behind Russsian criminal tattoos.

Sorry about the hiccup, topic reopened.

Here are the pics and comments posted by MIR from the second post of this thread;

........................................

So is anyone here into this style of tattoos or would like to know more about it?

A lot of the tattoos have meanings and are like your passport in prison or in the criminal life. If u dont have tattoos , u dont exist. Theres also a lot of humorous tattoos that scoff at the authorities. Actually most of the tattoos have an Anti-Authority meaning first.

Here's some pics and a link to a piece from the Alix Lambert Documentary, Mark of Cain.








Under his eyes, it says "Full of Love" on the chin " Danger...will kill"

cool to see this reopened... really interesting stuff....

Hey

Thanx for reconsidering my topic. I'm glad that u see what I see.

Heres some more info and pics, if anyone has any questions comments, feel free....

These pics of Russian Criminal Tattoos is just a tiny insight into a hidden world and subculture that dates back to the late 1800 when prisoners or "Katorzhinki" were branded across their face with the letters KAT, for Katorzhnik, sort of a life sentence even if the actual sentence wasnt.

In time the prisoners and professional criminals would turn this involuntary practice into something they could use as a code amongst themselves. As branding stopped in the early 1900's, tattooing began in the first soviet prisons. All different kinds of tattoos started popping up on bodies, and they all had meaning, and u had no right to tattoo any of them unless u earned them. Eagles were the most widespread, which meant that u were a "Vor V Zakone" or Thief in Law. It basically meant that u followed the Code of the thieves (Which is an actual book of laws mad up by criminals that they have to live by), that hes an authority in the criminal world and that he will never recognize or work for the government. Later on Eagles gave way to stars.

Churches and cathedrals are the most wide spread more or less. The number of domes signify the number of convictions he's had or the number of years he's done, One dome can also represent 5 years.

Stars on the shoulders mean "I will never wear epaulets" meaning i will never work for the government or any authorities.
Stars on the knees mean, "i will never kneel down before anyone"
Only the thieves in law and that have spent a lot of time in prison and proved themselves during those years could get those stars

Although the stigma of the tattoo has faded over the past 15-20 years and u see kids no older than 20 with stars on their chest. In the 60's and 70's and 80's that woulda meant death if u tattoo something u didnt earn.













Here's a 3-PART an article from The Examiner, who did an interview with me, written about Russian Criminal Tattoos and my MIR clothing line.
Part 1
part 2
Part 3

You know something... My roots come from Russia and my family were in lowest class of the society. I'm not very top by myself. Only friend's what i have ever got are little criminals and there was time in my life when i have to be dishonest to got food on my table.
There is some problems in criminal culture... There is culture's, subcultures and some ways can varies... Old union is not yet dead. Newschool use drug, women and guns... They hit and kill easier than old honorable union. You can quess where i give my respect.

There is some problem... You can earn some tattoo in first gang and when you go to the prison some other gang follow other rules and think you didin't deserve that tattoo what you got and so on... There is also some cultural/ancient tattoos what some gang adopt... Some normal people can take that tattoo too and when some bastard see it, you are (sadly) in trouble again...
Every rules don't come in paper. Some are what you learn to follow when you hang with the friend's... There is some ways and rules and some honor-codes what you have to follow. If you don't follow, you loose respect and trust. You can't betray your friend's, you have to dare do what you have to do, you can't rape, you can't kill for no reason or hurt innocent people and so on... You can rob a bank, but you can't shoot the bank lady if she don't try to shoot you... If you don't follow some honor-codes, you are soon alone... (Or you are part of the very sick street gang!)

Some new guys don't follow same rules anymore sadly because you realy can forgive if someone didn't know that he got a gang tattoo... Ofcourse there is some thing how you still can get beating (be disrespectful, know that is gang tattoo but take it anyway and so on...), but there is some honor too what told's not to use violence in all situation's... New guys think they are cool when they kill or beat someone when oldschool just kill or beat when they have to. They didin't have to proof anything before real situation. They gain their place and trust when gang saw what they can do in real situation... If you beat someone without a reason, guy's did not think you are cool... They think you draw attention and are bad for business and they can't trust you.

I have only two tattoo's by myself. That is because i take tattoo's what tell what i'm and how i live. my story is only in beginning, so i have not more tattoos... In my country there is not much of criminal tattoos and i'm happy with it. There is much less problem's what come's with tattoos... Ofcourse criminals still take tattoos, but... Things change when time pass... Some criminal's even hope that you don't have tattoos, you look normal and don't have criminal records because that draw attention.
Some thing's and some gangs go backward's when some try to go forward... Funny.

That why i'm not sure if that is cool idea to take some not so meaningful tattoos and put they as a t-shirt. It is not what tattoo's mean... it is what you are. If you are part of the criminal way of living you can show it, but if you think it is only "cool gangsta sh*t", it still be disrespectful thing to wear a shirt.. Hell you even can't wear some colours and combinations because some gang's will get mad if you don't be prospect, or hang-around.

This post has been edited by Henbane: Nov 2 2009, 02:23 PM

That quite an essay...

Vi Russky?

I respect the the art and the way of life. I wanted to commemorate that era and that code and those people that are dying out, ones that lived by these codes.

Basically, I cant control who buys my shit, so far most of the people that I've talked to or seen buy the shirts have had an intrest in the art. I wouldnt want somebody to buy the shirts cause they think they gonna be a "G" now. But I have no control over that.

In the end why do we buy clothes, tattoo stuff on ourselves, etc...because it looks cool and we like how it looks, then the meaning behind it comes into play, but i think its secondary. That is also plays a part in me doing the shirts. And I'
ll I stayed away from the status and ranking tattoos, although a lot of them looked very cool

I saw a show on history channel,marked i think was the name of it,about russian tattoos,they had some pretty cool shit,but like henbane said ,those guys would kill you for having the wrong tattoo,not saying anything about your shirts i think they are cool.I guess russian culture is a lot like gang culture here.anyway cool shirts and tattoos

First come reason and meaning, then come art where you put that reason/meaning what you like to tattoo on your skin. Mainly normal people see the art and copy it "because it look cool." I think no-one should copy meaningful things only because it look cool if they know there is something meaning back of the art... Even if it only means that you live and respect "thieves honor-code", you should respect those things before you wear that things because otherwise some criminal can kick your ass because they asume you are something what you are not... I have seen people get trouble because their shoe ties was wrong color... (skinhead things...)

Some gang's take it too seriously, some guys and gang's think more like if you are in the gang they asume you can't tattoo or wear something before you earn them, but they still let normal people be alone and wear what ever they like...
So it depends where you live and what kind of gang's/criminals are in that area what tell you what is safe to use. Ofcourse you can tattoo or wear whatever you like, but sometime it can cost you a lot and that why you should be aware.

Agreed henbane,I have had peoplr ask for (skinhead related tattoos)and i have always refussed,mainly because i disagree with their point of veiw,but they have the right to go somewhere else,and probobly do.The gangs aren't bad where i live so i wouldn't know if i were wearing the wrong color or not,i just like the art

I disagree,, I think art first appeals to us on a visual level and then if we look for meaning in it or some sort of correlation to our own ideas or lives.

I live in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn which is not the nicest but not the worst. I have been in most parts of Brooklyn though, day and night. Its all how u carry yourself and how u come acrosss. U act like a bitch, u gonna get treated like one. Same way it is in Moscow where I lived before

Like I said I chose to do this line because this is what I'm into and I wanted to share it with other people. I have seen a few t-shirts done on subject but they all either had stars on them or some high ranking thief tattoos, which i thought was disrespectful and the wrong way to go about this. So i decided to do it right.

Like I said all the tattoos that i used are from the 50s and 60's and are non status. Honestly though, even if they were I doubt anyone would call the wearer out for a t-shirt, u getttin too deep. Nowadays u can buy stars in prison if u got the money. Its loosing the stigma. Trust me I know, I seen it.

This post has been edited by MIR: Nov 2 2009, 05:05 PM

Don't get me wrong, i like your t-shirts and i don't gonna say that you should stop doing them... I only say that buyers should think when and where they wear those because still they can get in trouble if they look like criminal and don't be what they look.. If there is meaning, you should stand for it.
For examble you shouldn't use "legalize it" -shirt if you are against cannabis etc... Picture in the shirt can be very nice, but if there is something behind that you should know it and give atleast respect for it...

Every criminal's and gang member's don't be friendly or logical and leave outsider alone, i have seen that and believe when i say it. If you look like a gang member, someone can handle you like a gangster and that always don't be so nice. Even if you say "i wear this only because there is nice picture" someone can get mad. Maybe don't kill you but still it don't be fun for you when some criminal are mad at you and push you around.
Hehheh... that remains me when i once pushed someone around when he looked at me and act like he was scared... I went mad because he mocked me and think there is nothing what i can do for him because there was secure guard around the place... I just drag him out and gave him a reason to scare me. If you act, you always should take respond what happen next. It is wussy thing wear some meaningful stuff and say "i don't represent it!" You can ignore all meaning if you like so, but you should know what can happen if you piss wrong guy with that. Many kid's live with their parents, act like gangster, look like gangster but don't be one and there is danger when some real deal meet them.
Here this is problem because so many act like big gangster and told something like "if you hit me, my friend's "The Hells Angels" come and kill you! hah in your face!" Those guys are really pissed because all that threats bring a bad name to the gang...
There is something what they call snowball effect. It can start from small thing and then to turn very big thing... If you pissed some gangster, next you can accidentaly step on him foot and next it is personally... I have seen it when some gangster was seriously mad and some guy didn't realise it... Not so nice to look at if you don't like to see blood and teeth around the asphalt.

If you are in wrong place and wear wrong thing and look like you are part of something, you can fucked up whole situation and get serious ass kicking. I have seen some guy who wear baggy trousers because they were trendy... some skinheads believe he was in "another side" and kick him down and continue to kick even when he went unconscious.
I have seen too when some gang members beat a girl because she used army shoes and camo trousers... Next come revenge and so on. Always revenge don't go to right address... They just beat someone who fit to the picture. This is serious thing believe me. You should not use gang/criminal relate stuff/clothes/tattoo's if you are not in it.

I have been in killing list once.. It not be very nice. There was one bitch who put rumor what i have done... Very nasty rumors. After that almost everyone hate me and it was a honor thing to beat me up. I near get killed and it was one big fight in many years only because some criminal's didn't like the idea that there was my kind of people in their hoods. That was only "a little rumor" what she made up because she wan to hurt me, but she was to wussy to do anything for me.
Even now after ten fucking years i look my back because my past can come hound. I don't like to use my real name because it can cause very serious things to happen for me if wrong people hear it. I know what gangsters can be. Sometime when you only make eye contact there come that "what you looking for huh?" and next thing what you see is fist what fit righ in your eye...

Here where i live you still mainly have to gain respect and trust, you can't buy your place to the gang. Believe me this aint America.
Here gangmember's are your friend's. Here are mainly few big criminals with their circle's, motorcycle clubs and skinheads. Ofcourse there are some "little criminal's" too.
Things maybe are changed in there, but here things are still mainly like they were in "old days". You can see changes and where it would go... drugs and guns are now here, but still many follow old rules... And many give respect for them. I follow them too because i know what gangs can be and when i see some new comers and what they do i don't like it at all...

I think your shirts are nice looking and pictures are nice. There is something meaning after those pictures and you should stand for it if you wear it. It is like three dot's between thumb and forefinger... It represent criminal/bad culture. If you are not part of that culture don't use it because you give wrong image from you otherwise.