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The trade of tattooing has a rich history and traditions that have been passed down from generation to generation. If you respect the art, please show your respects by learning the right way.
Plz Help, Back Springs On Two Machines By Checkmate Keep Breaking |
 Aug 18 2009, 06:00 AM
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#1
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i just purchased two machines from checkmate, a liner and a shader, they both run great but the back springs keep breaking! they have broken on both machines twice now and they seem to break within 4-6 hours of use. the liner runs at 130hz loaded and the shader at 115hz, 160 and 130 unloaded. I was hoping somebody might have some suggestion so i dont throw $500 down the drain! the both seem to break right at the corner of the spring shelf but i also had one break about half way up.. here what they look like broke and not broken....
 
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 18 2009, 06:31 AM
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#2
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heres two more pictures one frome the side view and one of where the spring broke half way up...
 
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 18 2009, 06:51 AM
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#3
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did u try contacting checkmate?
-------------------- KVD
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Aug 18 2009, 07:18 AM
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#4
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pmed ya THE solution
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Aug 18 2009, 07:59 AM
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#5
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im having a wiled uneducated guess , sorta kinda think its...
that square washer ? ....... edit:..... let me know if it is This post has been edited by Teo: Aug 18 2009, 07:59 AM |
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Aug 18 2009, 09:39 AM
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#6
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The square washer,a.k.a saddle clamp,shouldnt cause that...in fact its generally thought to be a beneficial piece of kit....it did break right there though....but I defer to those better qualified!
I would have thought trimming the front spring to the curve of the washer,or using a square washer,might help...wouldnt explain the break point though...??? 
This post has been edited by shocker: Aug 18 2009, 09:44 AM -------------------- GENTLEMAN LOSER -- INTERNATIONAL SLUM DOG -- ON A FARM
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Aug 18 2009, 10:54 AM
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#7
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nothing wrong with the front spring
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Aug 18 2009, 01:50 PM
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#8
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QUOTE (mark101 @ Aug 18 2009, 07:54 PM)  nothing wrong with the front spring are you heavy handed i am and i have had a few break (not checkmates) i think over tightening the screws may cause this, maybe just a suggestion -------------------- A closed mind is like a closed book.........a piece of wood.
Art and music are food for the soul |
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Aug 18 2009, 02:38 PM
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#9
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QUOTE (mark101 @ Aug 18 2009, 08:18 AM) pmed ya THE solution Mark101, Any reason not to share the solution for the group's benefit? -------------------- _____________________
Official Member of the "Never Buy Foreverstained" _______Fan Club_______ |
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Aug 18 2009, 02:51 PM
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#10
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QUOTE (crrreature @ Aug 18 2009, 02:38 PM) Mark101, Any reason not to share the solution for the group's benefit? most of the builders here will know the problem, lets see if a none builder can tell us the solution why dont you have first try?, thsi could be a good way of learning 
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Aug 18 2009, 02:54 PM
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#11
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EDIT: PM Removed
hey mark are you talking about the square spring clamp? if so it did come with the beveled edge facing forward and it was flush with the spring shelf, i just turned it to try something different, and it did do something different, instead of break at the corner of the spring deck it broke halfway up... i contacted checkmate and he sent me four replacement springs, and ive used them all up in a matter of a week... just looking to have a permanent solution so i dont have to retun them, and no i dont have a heavy hand, these are the only machines out of six that ive ever had this happen to. maybe markt4lyf, forgiven or buzz mighthave some input? -------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 18 2009, 03:00 PM
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#12
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the edges of the clamp and the spring deck look very sharp i would
take a file and remove the sharp edge from the spring deck and from the clamp (round them off with a small file) and yes mark 101 is right in the fact that the overhanging spring clamp would cause the spring to snap |
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Aug 18 2009, 03:07 PM
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#13
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ill try filing down the corner of one of the machines and let you guys know how it goes, i just didnt wanna mess with it incase i wanted to return it. was hoping there was some other solution.
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 18 2009, 03:12 PM
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#14
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QUOTE (emcee2 @ Aug 18 2009, 04:07 PM) ill try filing down the corner of one of the machines and let you guys know how it goes, i just didnt wanna mess with it incase i wanted to return it. was hoping there was some other solution. just go easy, ya cant do any arm, when its done re spring it and hang it running for an hour or two loaded if ya like if it stays i think the problem could be solved |
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Aug 18 2009, 04:20 PM
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#15
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QUOTE (buzzbrush @ Aug 18 2009, 03:51 PM) most of the builders here will know the problem, lets see if a none builder can tell us the solution why dont you have first try?, thsi could be a good way of learning If I had to make a guess it would be based on excessive movement of the rear spring. I would say maybe the armature bar making contact with the rear coil causing a double flexing of the rear spring. Possibly running the machine to hard with a very wide gap. Of course these would be guesses. -------------------- _____________________
Official Member of the "Never Buy Foreverstained" _______Fan Club_______ |
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Aug 18 2009, 04:23 PM
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#16
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good guesses, but the armature bar dosent touch the back coils and i run them at 5.5-6.5 volts
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 18 2009, 04:26 PM
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#17
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i would go with the sharp edges that coupled with the over hang on that rear spring clamp, i would try running it with out the spring clamp first and see if you get any breakages, chackmate makes a hell of a nice machine i love the one ive got off him
-------------------- The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them. |
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Aug 18 2009, 04:29 PM
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#18
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yes he does, best running machines ive used, too bad im having this problem on both of them. can you post som pics of yours paint?
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 19 2009, 02:36 AM
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#19
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QUOTE (emcee2 @ Aug 19 2009, 12:29 PM) yes he does, best running machines ive used, too bad im having this problem on both of them. can you post som pics of yours paint?    a no nonsence liner, never broken a spring definetly my favourite liner. -------------------- The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them. |
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Aug 19 2009, 02:44 AM
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#20
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well.....im stumped....im still hanging on to my first thoughts on the the square washer , as its over hanging slightly , wouldnt that cause undue pressure on the back spring ?
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Aug 19 2009, 04:23 AM
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#21
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Got me.....coils need shimming?Angle of spring deck calls for front edge to bevelled?But surely the builder would have took care of those?I dunno....clutching at straws
-------------------- GENTLEMAN LOSER -- INTERNATIONAL SLUM DOG -- ON A FARM
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Aug 19 2009, 04:35 AM
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#22
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you have bother with those purple unimax's too paint?
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Aug 19 2009, 02:03 PM
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#23
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QUOTE (deerfaced @ Aug 20 2009, 12:35 AM) you have bother with those purple unimax's too paint? ha ha yeah ya noticed that huh, i have to grind em in there -------------------- The dumber people think you are, the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them. |
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Aug 19 2009, 09:46 PM
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#24
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you and me both buddy.
your machine is hella pretty dude. those coils kick ass. |
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Aug 20 2009, 09:31 PM
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#25
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i would venture to guess its because the spring saddle is not flush with the deck like it over hangs which i would imagine would stress the spring and maybe be a little raspy? the liner never broke a spring and doesnt have the saddle hanging out
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Aug 22 2009, 10:58 AM
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#26
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Anyone gonna break the omerta and tell?
-------------------- GENTLEMAN LOSER -- INTERNATIONAL SLUM DOG -- ON A FARM
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Aug 22 2009, 12:42 PM
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#27
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i spoke to CM...
heres the deal.. ive had a few issuses lately ..very strange ..all at once within 2 weeks.. same with Bubba S. and it turns out CM too.. all within the past 2 weeks ive had 5 springs snap with in the past 4 days on my personal machines ..Bubba has had issues also on his personal machines . now i dont use deck plates ..personal or otherwise. ive done the same as i have for years ..ive been doing this for awhile ... i use mainly eikon but also : Joey D Aaron C springs .. so i would bet a large sum of $$that it is the quality of the spring stock..id aklso wager that you'll be hearing more of this from other builders soon. A. |
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Aug 22 2009, 01:33 PM
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#28
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so forgiven, correct me if im wrong but your saying they all the builders are getting fucked over with shitty spring stock, and the place to buy springs right now is eikon, joey d, and arron c?? btw what are deckplates? the square piece of metal used to hold down the spring? if so what do you use now instead of deackplates?
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 22 2009, 02:46 PM
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#29
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NO NO! Aaron Cain, Joey D and Eikon are the springs that I have had problems with personally, i had a brand new Aaron Cain shader, lasted three days, broke the rear spring, sent a replacement, broke same day, so it has nothing to with the spring deck washer, it is important to have that, not just a grabbing of straws, got that info from Brian Hibbard. So until the cheap spring stock gets gone through, id be cutting my own of old stock.
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Aug 22 2009, 04:01 PM
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#30
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what kind of springs has emcee been breaking?
so the over hang on the top has nothing to do with it? i know my machine runs wierd if mines like that i cut a bunch of springs for my machines last week outta feeler gage...maybe thats a better alternative....cheap too compared to a set from eikon |
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Aug 22 2009, 05:09 PM
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#31
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i dont know, whatever checkmate uses on his machines, i did file down the corner on my spring shelf and move the deck plate back so it is not hanging over and my liner seems to be holding up so far, although ive only used it for about 6 hours, so that could change...
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 22 2009, 05:24 PM
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#32
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QUOTE (emcee2 @ Aug 22 2009, 05:33 PM) so forgiven, correct me if im wrong but your saying they all the builders are getting fucked over with shitty spring stock, and the place to buy springs right now is eikon, joey d, and arron c?? btw what are deckplates? the square piece of metal used to hold down the spring? if so what do you use now instead of deackplates? i buy large quanities of springs i buy eikon -joey d-luckys it seems like the last batch of springs ive bought have not been up to par with the springs ive bought in the past 4 yrs . i use washers or coins . the paulos (frames checkmate uses) have had no changes in geometry /angles/sharpness ,so in my humble opinion it has nothing to do with the frames ...but what the fuck do i know ? it looks like its time to break out the old eikon stock. A. |
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Aug 22 2009, 09:12 PM
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#33
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springs break, all the time. IF a springs breaks, put a new one on, retune and tattoo, apprentice shit 101. Everyone can respring and retune a machine right?
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Aug 22 2009, 11:42 PM
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#34
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QUOTE (bubba sparks @ Aug 23 2009, 12:12 AM) springs break, all the time. IF a springs breaks, put a new one on, retune and tattoo, apprentice shit 101. Everyone can respring and retune a machine right? if your springs are breaking all the time then id say there is a problem somewhere...which would in turn be a waste of time and money to let it go unfixed i think |
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Aug 22 2009, 11:54 PM
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#35
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yeah, i just dont think i should have to respring a machine 3x a week.
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 23 2009, 12:01 AM
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#36
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maybe ya wont have to if it was that saddle
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Aug 23 2009, 04:37 AM
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#37
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yeah, hopefully, and bubba, i have two other machines that i use daily that ive never had to replace anything on for the past two years.
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 23 2009, 07:18 AM
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#38
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might not have been making machines for as long as some folk, but i have made over 70 machines now, and i have only ever had one machine break a spring that i know of
and i do try to keep in touch with all the people that have/use may machines , i find that a spring is likely to dull (wear out) before it breaks , it should be replaced when it dulls a spring will not last for ever even if it dont break, THEY DO WEAR OUT |
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Aug 23 2009, 08:13 AM
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#39
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eventually yah
This post has been edited by mark101: Aug 23 2009, 08:16 AM |
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Aug 23 2009, 08:18 AM
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#40
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QUOTE (mark101 @ Aug 23 2009, 08:13 AM) eventually yah how many hours working would a spring last? , i know its not an easy question but on average 500 hrs 1000hrs or is it a unknown |
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Aug 23 2009, 08:24 AM
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#41
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depends
how often is it being fucked with ? how hard is the machine being run ? what size is the rear spring gap? (proper cutback liners tend to pop first) virtually impossible to answer really theres too many variables lol |
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Aug 23 2009, 08:26 AM
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#42
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QUOTE (mark101 @ Aug 23 2009, 08:24 AM) depends how often is it being fucked with ? how hard is the machine being run ? what size is the rear spring gap? (proper cutback liners tend to pop first) virtually impossible to answer really theres too many variables lol well i think your first answer is the one that makes em or breaks em 
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Aug 23 2009, 08:30 AM
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#43
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QUOTE (forgiven @ Aug 22 2009, 09:42 PM) i spoke to CM... heres the deal.. ive had a few issuses lately ..very strange ..all at once within 2 weeks.. same with Bubba S. and it turns out CM too.. all within the past 2 weeks ive had 5 springs snap with in the past 4 days on my personal machines ..Bubba has had issues also on his personal machines . now i dont use deck plates ..personal or otherwise. ive done the same as i have for years ..ive been doing this for awhile ... i use mainly eikon but also : Joey D Aaron C springs .. so i would bet a large sum of $$that it is the quality of the spring stock..id aklso wager that you'll be hearing more of this from other builders soon. A. Funny you should say that as my new cain machine snapped its back spring after 1/2 hour's use. I sent it back for him to fuck with it as quiet simply I don't feel I should have too. He's been very cool about it as when it turned up with him it was wet and rusted to fuck! (it was packaged up in 2 boxes and a plastic bag) but he's rebuilding it from scratch. |
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 Aug 23 2009, 10:56 AM
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#44
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QUOTE (emcee2 @ Aug 23 2009, 02:54 AM) yeah, i just dont think i should have to respring a machine 3x a week. i literally had to re spring one of my daily drivers 5 times since tuesday . |
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Aug 23 2009, 01:14 PM
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#45
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thats such a pain in the ass, im thinking of switching to pneumatics or stigmas maybe that'll solve the problem. Its just such a pain in the ass when your best running machine breaks every couple days and when you run out of parts your left tattooing with one of your sub par machines.
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Aug 23 2009, 03:08 PM
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#46
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I think I need to make that time to learn how to cut and roll my own springs. Sounds like a really good skill to acquire.
-------------------- |
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Aug 23 2009, 03:11 PM
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#47
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QUOTE (J.D. @ Aug 23 2009, 08:08 PM) I think I need to make that time to learn how to cut and roll my own springs. Sounds like a really good skill to acquire. simple shit man anyone with a pair of snips & a lil sense can do it -------------------- im pretty much done on this forum, you can reach me thru my website
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Aug 23 2009, 03:30 PM
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#48
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QUOTE (MARKT4LYF @ Aug 23 2009, 04:11 PM) simple shit man anyone with a pair of snips & a lil sense can do it We've had this conversation before. Easy for you, but not for a man with two left thumbs and can't even be trusted with safely carving the family turkey. I stabbed my hand straight through once, opening an avocado for fucks sake. 
-------------------- |
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Aug 23 2009, 07:28 PM
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#49
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QUOTE (J.D. @ Aug 23 2009, 07:30 PM) We've had this conversation before. Easy for you, but not for a man with two left thumbs and can't even be trusted with safely carving the family turkey. I stabbed my hand straight through once, opening an avocado for fucks sake. i cut my thumb making my springs... it was a good learning experience tho
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Aug 23 2009, 07:48 PM
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#50
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QUOTE (dRock13 @ Aug 23 2009, 11:28 PM) i cut my thumb making my springs... it was a good learning experience thohold your spring stock with pliers while making your cuts
-------------------- im pretty much done on this forum, you can reach me thru my website
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Aug 23 2009, 10:22 PM
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#51
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QUOTE (emcee2 @ Aug 23 2009, 04:37 AM) yeah, hopefully, and bubba, i have two other machines that i use daily that ive never had to replace anything on for the past two years. i have more checkmate machines than anyone, I have had one spring break. Maybe id switch to my other machines and try a different spring set up. With all the springs breaking, it dosent take a fucking rocket scientist to figure this one out, bad stock. Not all the machines are PF either. I know checkmate, and he will take care of it. His machines are top notch |
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Aug 24 2009, 01:45 AM
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#52
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If the square saddle was not filed down on the under side it could be to blame..
Though it is possible that poor quality spring stock is to blame... I personally cut my own from Starret feeler stock and have NEVER had a problem in over 500 machines, it may be a bit more expensive then any other stock out there, and it may take more time to cut your own.... but the quality cant be beat
This post has been edited by AnTiCrAsH: Aug 24 2009, 01:46 AM |
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Aug 24 2009, 10:00 AM
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#53
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QUOTE (bubba sparks @ Aug 23 2009, 10:22 PM) it dosent take a fucking rocket scientist to figure this one out, bad stock. x2 -------------------- Nosferatu1812@yahoo.com
CLICK ME " Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy,and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty"- Plato |
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Aug 25 2009, 09:14 AM
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#54
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QUOTE (emcee2 @ Aug 22 2009, 07:09 PM) i dont know, whatever checkmate uses on his machines, i did file down the corner on my spring shelf and move the deck plate back so it is not hanging over and my liner seems to be holding up so far, although ive only used it for about 6 hours, so that could change... I've been using Joey D springs for the last 2 years without breakage like I've been having within the last few weeks, and my builds have been the same during this time, in fact I've stopped building untill the issue is resolved. I've spoke to Joey about the problem recently , we'll figure this out ! Gonna have to start cutting my own rears for now if I need a spring. My apologies to anyone who has experienced this problem on one of my machines (you're not the only one emcee2) . |
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Aug 25 2009, 03:51 PM
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#55
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I figured something was up. I'm not happy to hear what has happened with everyone but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't glad I'm not the only one.
Does anyone know if it was a particular spring guage that was cracking on every single one? Or were they a diverse group? -------------------- "Often times, the man considered to be the most wisest is also the man who has made the most mistakes."
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Aug 25 2009, 06:17 PM
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#56
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QUOTE (Biyoku @ Aug 25 2009, 06:51 PM) I figured something was up. I'm not happy to hear what has happened with everyone but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't glad I'm not the only one. Does anyone know if it was a particular spring guage that was cracking on every single one? Or were they a diverse group? Typicaly for me it's been 18 |
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Sep 12 2009, 08:13 PM
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#57
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ok well i tried everything, i filed down all the sharp corners and made sure the spring clamp didnt overhang the spring deck, and it did last a little longer, 2 weeks! does anyone know if the spring stock issue has been resolved and if so where i can buy some good stock?
-------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Sep 13 2009, 03:20 AM
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#58
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QUOTE (Checkmate @ Aug 25 2009, 09:14 AM) I've been using Joey D springs for the last 2 years without breakage like I've been having within the last few weeks, and my builds have been the same during this time, in fact I've stopped building untill the issue is resolved. I've spoke to Joey about the problem recently , we'll figure this out ! Gonna have to start cutting my own rears for now if I need a spring. My apologies to anyone who has experienced this problem on one of my machines (you're not the only one emcee2) . if ya don't mind me askin,are you buying strip stock from a tattoo supplier,or buying sheet stock from a spring manufacturer,i have 18 sheet stock,and they seem really durable and long lasting,it may be just your supplier got a bad run,too much heat makes em brittle,not enough makes em less rigid,try annealing a set and see if that solves the problem,they sound too brittle,or try a different supplier and see how that goes,good luck |
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Sep 13 2009, 03:44 AM
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#59
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QUOTE (emcee2 @ Sep 12 2009, 08:13 PM) ok well i tried everything, i filed down all the sharp corners and made sure the spring clamp didnt overhang the spring deck, and it did last a little longer, 2 weeks! does anyone know if the spring stock issue has been resolved and if so where i can buy some good stock? emcee where are ya located,i've got some old spring stock i can either send ya a coupla small strips or send em to checkmate to have him make em,lemme know,i have never had a spring break within a year a buildin,so if it breaks right after this stock,then you'll bet it's a mechanical problem,but i'm bettin my cash on the stock,i don't have p.m. here,but post here and somehow i'll get ya my info through another member,i like those builds,they look sweet,be a shame to waste em for this stupid lil problem |
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Sep 13 2009, 07:05 AM
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#60
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hey jr. that would be waesome if i could get some tried and tested spring stock, do you maybe wanna set something up for paypal?
thanks, marc chislett contact me thru facebook if you have or my name at hotmail dot com -------------------- I haven't failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that don't work.[http://www.facebook.com/p/Marc_Chislett/623005117
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Sep 13 2009, 08:38 AM
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#61
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QUOTE (emcee2 @ Sep 13 2009, 07:05 AM) hey jr. that would be waesome if i could get some tried and tested spring stock, do you maybe wanna set something up for paypal? thanks, marc chislett contact me thru facebook if you have or my name at hotmail dot com will do it tonight when i get back home after 3;30 eastern time,i'm on facebook but i'll e-mail ya,it's alot faster and more direct |
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Sep 13 2009, 09:04 AM
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#62
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just look for the one who looks like a swedish porn star that will be jrf lmao
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Sep 13 2009, 09:25 AM
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#63
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daammnn....i always thought he liked midget porn stars
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Sep 13 2009, 09:35 AM
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#64
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QUOTE (haric @ Sep 13 2009, 09:25 AM) daammnn....i always thought he liked midget porn stars only when they are wearing masks This post has been edited by mark101: Sep 13 2009, 09:35 AM |
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Sep 13 2009, 11:50 AM
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#65
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i always get a chub fer the midget hooker in total recall,that's right baby climb that bar stool,ohhh yeeaaahhh,lol
This post has been edited by jrf134: Sep 13 2009, 11:51 AM |
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Sep 13 2009, 12:18 PM
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#66
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hey emcee2 i sent ya an e-mail to marcchislett@hotmail.com and one message on facebook with my e-mail,lemme know if ya get it
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Sep 13 2009, 01:14 PM
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#67
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QUOTE (jrf134 @ Sep 13 2009, 11:50 AM) i always get a chub fer the midget hooker in total recall,that's right baby climb that bar stool,ohhh yeeaaahhh,lol i mostly like her cus she's half price,bwaahaaahaaahaha |
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Oct 30 2009, 03:27 PM
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#68
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I have an Aaron Cain liner and the one of the other guys has a shader different styles. I have a work horse irons and his is a custom cain.. broke our rear springs within 20 minutes of each other. Thought we were jinxed. I put on a Pulse and he used some he cut. No problems. YET!! LOL
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