Machine set-up, what gives! |
 Apr 23 2007, 09:12 PM
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#1
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OK, so we got a Micky Sharpz Iron T-Dial shader in today. We hooked it up to the Eikon EMS 200. But the readings were not on par with what they should be! When the machine is purring like it should the speed is above 120 in the realm of a liner. When we turn the voltage up to lower the speed (between 100-110), the machine sounds like it's ripping hard. We even tried to make some adjust,ents to the back spring to apply more pressure to the front spring, and thus affecting speed.
I know the machine is used, but humor me for a second...I was under the assumption that machines such as a Sharpz were tuned at the factory to run properly. Even the previous owner of this machine said it ran properly. Why are these machines that are used by professionals not registering the correct number son our power supply? Are they just set-up by ear? I'd really appreciate those of you who work in shops chiming in on this subject. -------------------- Stay humble.
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Apr 24 2007, 12:31 AM
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#2
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Don't pay too much attention to machines giving out the "wrong" readings. I know some artists whose machines work perfectly FOR THEM but when they hooked them up to the Eikon they were way off the ideal readings. It's a bit like Michael Johnson the 200m world record holder; if he had a techinique that was by the book he wouldn't be as fast, his technique shouldn't work but it does FOR HIM. I wouldn't worry about the speed of the Mickey they all run like road drills, it's the way they set-up their coils/capacitor.
-------------------- Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.
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Apr 24 2007, 07:42 AM
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#3
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Joe,
Should we be going more on sound or readings? Everytime I've been professionally tattooed, the shader sounds like a electric shaver; kind of a soft buzz. Should we be more concerned with sound than with readings? Or the other way around? -------------------- Stay humble.
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Apr 24 2007, 07:57 AM
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#4
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Neither, some machines sound horrible but put ink in great, other machines get ideal readings but don't put ink in at all well. It really does depend on the machine in question which is why machine tuning confuses the hell out of some pros, never mind the beginners! There are little tricks that make it easier such as the nickel/dime theory and the 3 spring illusion and the figure of 8 but these just guides and not very accurate. You need to familiarise yourself with a certain type of machine and decide wether you can get it to work for you. If not,get rid of it on ebay. Not all machines suit all tattooists, which is why there are so many popular makes/styles out there. Some guys have multiple machines set up to do 1 tattoo;1 for lining,1 for shading,1 for colouring,1 for mags,1 for rounds etc...There are some good all round machines but some are better at pushing mags than others and so forth. It's down to experimentation, trial and error and experience i'm afraid. This is one subject where there are no quick fixes or shortcuts. ;)
-------------------- Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.
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Apr 24 2007, 10:43 AM
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#5
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I got both of mine (Liner And Shader) running out of a huck spaulding power supply and those baby purrrrrrr i kkep my liner at 15 and when i put color or black in i keep the shader between 13-15 but when i do my grey wash i turn that thing down to about 4-10 where it has a slow purring... But for me i do what my dad told me tune it untill it sounds like a harley idling(Pretty much nice and soft).. But he try to tell and show me the dime and nickle trick but didn't really care so i tune it by ear....
-------------------- a Quote from the master...
PAIN,,, Pain for you. Fun for me |
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Apr 24 2007, 01:37 PM
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#6
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You're running those machines like road drills PanFuckingterA. My Micjkey Sharpz machines run fast and they run at 8-11(roughly). To do grey wash 4-10 is a pretty wide margin of tuning ???
-------------------- Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.
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Apr 24 2007, 03:43 PM
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#7
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I use the reading as a starting point and then adjust by ear and watch how that effects the readings. it's been really educational... helps me to know how adjustments cause small and huge changes in the way the machine runs.
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Apr 24 2007, 04:02 PM
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#8
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Knowing exactly what those little adjustments are doing to your machines performance is the key. But don't get overly technical about it, there are plenty of tattooists that don't know squat about machine mechanics but they produce killer tattoos day in ,day out. ;)
-------------------- Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.
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Apr 24 2007, 08:58 PM
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#9
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SO true Joe!!!
It's that word that keeps coming up all the time "Experience" |
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Aug 23 2007, 10:32 AM
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#10
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QUOTE(admin @ Apr 24 2007, 12:12 AM)  OK, so we got a Micky Sharpz Iron T-Dial shader in today. We hooked it up to the Eikon EMS 200. But the readings were not on par with what they should be! When the machine is purring like it should the speed is above 120 in the realm of a liner. When we turn the voltage up to lower the speed (between 100-110), the machine sounds like it's ripping hard. We even tried to make some adjust,ents to the back spring to apply more pressure to the front spring, and thus affecting speed. I know the machine is used, but humor me for a second...I was under the assumption that machines such as a Sharpz were tuned at the factory to run properly. Even the previous owner of this machine said it ran properly. Why are these machines that are used by professionals not registering the correct number son our power supply? Are they just set-up by ear? I'd really appreciate those of you who work in shops chiming in on this subject. first question - is that loaded speed or unloaded? my color machines run around 100-120 unloaded, my shaders run around 100-120 loaded. bending the back spring isn't gonna slow it down much, just change how it hits. if you want it slower, you need a longer, lower gauge or thinner front spring. putting more bend on the front sometimes helps as well. what are the spring gauges? what are the gaps? how fast do you want it to run at what voltage and duty cycle? |
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Sep 9 2007, 03:26 AM
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#11
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QUOTE(mysticmonkey @ Aug 23 2007, 10:32 AM) first question - is that loaded speed or unloaded? my color machines run around 100-120 unloaded, my shaders run around 100-120 loaded. bending the back spring isn't gonna slow it down much, just change how it hits. if you want it slower, you need a longer, lower gauge or thinner front spring. putting more bend on the front sometimes helps as well. what are the spring gauges? what are the gaps? how fast do you want it to run at what voltage and duty cycle? the most important pieces of kit for tuning a machine wont cost you a penny they are your thumb and your ear |
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Sep 10 2007, 12:45 PM
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#12
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I have a guitar, and if you use an electrical guitar-tuner it will sound horrible if you play it.
but if i use my ears for tuning... perfect sound 
-------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
No maŽam. I am not the devil, I am Musician. www.sirtralala.net www.myspace.com/SirTralala |
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Sep 10 2007, 02:42 PM
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#13
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QUOTE(mark101 @ Sep 9 2007, 07:26 AM) the most important pieces of kit for tuning a machine wont cost you a penny they are your thumb and your ear Just incase you all have no idea what Mark is talking about, it sounds like he was trained to tune his machines the same way I was, by feel. You may want to try this: When checking your machine setup, load it with whatever grouping you'll be using with the bands and all, then run it adjusting your voltage and gap (optimal gap will not always be nickel and dime. I have one machine set up for soft shading with close to a three nickel gap and I need to bump start it most of the time) until your machine hits it's sweet spot (most of the time it will sound like an electric shaver), after that stick your thumb under the end of your armature bar (by your grommet or nipple) to gauge how it's hitting. If you have nothing to compare your setup to it will be hard for you to translate what you feel into what you should be feeling. So that being said once you get a machine to run well see how it feels with your thumb. Once you get the feel for it, it will become easier for you to set up quickly for soft shading or color packing. Hope this helps. |
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Sep 10 2007, 10:27 PM
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#14
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QUOTE(jabardstown @ Sep 10 2007, 12:42 PM) Just incase you all have no idea what Mark is talking about, it sounds like he was trained to tune his machines the same way I was, by feel. You may want to try this: When checking your machine setup, load it with whatever grouping you'll be using with the bands and all, then run it adjusting your voltage and gap (optimal gap will not always be nickel and dime. I have one machine set up for soft shading with close to a three nickel gap and I need to bump start it most of the time) until your machine hits it's sweet spot (most of the time it will sound like an electric shaver), after that stick your thumb under the end of your armature bar (by your grommet or nipple) to gauge how it's hitting. If you have nothing to compare your setup to it will be hard for you to translate what you feel into what you should be feeling. So that being said once you get a machine to run well see how it feels with your thumb. Once you get the feel for it, it will become easier for you to set up quickly for soft shading or color packing. Hope this helps. OMG!!!! YOU GUYS ARE F*CKIN AWESOME!!!! THANKS FOR THE TIPS!!! 
-------------------- I am not a Pro Artist. I give out my opinions on a public forum.
I'm trying to be a team player, because I love this Art, and I love teamwork. Don't take everything I say as gospel truth. You shouldn't follow anyone blindly anyway. Always do your own research and checking. |
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Sep 11 2007, 06:28 AM
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#15
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once you have checked you machines as already said check the spring motion against a tv or something like that you should get a nice "wave motion" and a very slow "wave" for a shader nickel/ dime is bunkem too many varations of a machine to be the case I have had plenty of people around my house who struggle with the concept of tuning a machine but within an hour they can walk away with a working knowledge and confidence as said without hearing/feeling a properly tuned machine its very hard to know wether your on the right or wrong track |
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Sep 14 2007, 01:49 PM
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#16
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QUOTE(jabardstown @ Sep 10 2007, 11:42 PM) Just incase you all have no idea what Mark is talking about, it sounds like he was trained to tune his machines the same way I was, by feel. You may want to try this: When checking your machine setup, load it with whatever grouping you'll be using with the bands and all, then run it adjusting your voltage and gap (optimal gap will not always be nickel and dime. I have one machine set up for soft shading with close to a three nickel gap and I need to bump start it most of the time) until your machine hits it's sweet spot (most of the time it will sound like an electric shaver), after that stick your thumb under the end of your armature bar (by your grommet or nipple) to gauge how it's hitting. If you have nothing to compare your setup to it will be hard for you to translate what you feel into what you should be feeling. So that being said once you get a machine to run well see how it feels with your thumb. Once you get the feel for it, it will become easier for you to set up quickly for soft shading or color packing. Hope this helps. Jabardstown - how do you mean 'bumpstart' it? is that by flicking the a-bar to get it going? i am having to do this with my ITS machine - if i whack up the voltage it feels too hard for putting in colour like a neumatic drill almost (i wouldn;t be comfortable putting colour into myself with it running like that) ... if i turn it down to 6v i got to flick it to get it going every time i take my foot off the pedal. you can feel the power going through it but it just does not connect, yet i have cleaned the contacts and made sure everything is tight! -------------------- Facebook me ... blackwidow footie/myspace me ... bwidow2001
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Sep 14 2007, 03:32 PM
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#17
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QUOTE(mark101 @ Sep 11 2007, 10:28 AM) once you have checked you machines as already said check the spring motion against a tv or something like that you should get a nice "wave motion" and a very slow "wave" for a shader nickel/ dime is bunkem too many varations of a machine to be the case I have had plenty of people around my house who struggle with the concept of tuning a machine but within an hour they can walk away with a working knowledge and confidence as said without hearing/feeling a properly tuned machine its very hard to know wether your on the right or wrong track Im just wondering why Huck Spaulding Tattooing A to Z states that the shader runs faster then the outliner, but everything in this forum tells me different. Is it shader fastest, outliner fast, color slow? Im confused here? I just slipped a 5rs into my liner an checked it out. Seems like I can still get a decent blend with sweep shading even with my liner settings. |
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Sep 14 2007, 03:57 PM
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#18
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hence power linning
-------------------- |
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Sep 14 2007, 08:36 PM
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#19
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QUOTE(Blackwidow @ Sep 14 2007, 05:49 PM) Jabardstown - how do you mean 'bumpstart' it? is that by flicking the a-bar to get it going? i am having to do this with my ITS machine - if i whack up the voltage it feels too hard for putting in colour like a neumatic drill almost (i wouldn;t be comfortable putting colour into myself with it running like that) ... if i turn it down to 6v i got to flick it to get it going every time i take my foot off the pedal. you can feel the power going through it but it just does not connect, yet i have cleaned the contacts and made sure everything is tight! That's exactly what I mean. I have mine set up that way purposely for soft shading. |
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| Guest_ESSEX_GAZ_* |
Sep 15 2007, 02:38 AM
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#20
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oh man! so are you saying that you cant actually follow a guide to a set way of tuning your machine? this is getting super confusing!!! and i am still having probs taking in the actual difference in tuning between a liner and a shader .the volts higher or lower? the air gap larger or smaller? i keep reading conflicting instruction. HELP!!!
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