Machine Building Section |
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 Aug 29 2008, 04:07 AM
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#1
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First of all im sorry fi this has been suggested before.
But there seems to be one or two top machine builders on the forum, and i think its definatly appropriate to have a machine build section. It's important for any tattooist to understand fully how their machines work and what the variables are, i know there has been a few very informative posts on this but i think it deserves it own section. I myself would like to embark on this sort of thing shortly, maybe starting by casting frames and using professional machine parts, and gradually creating my own springs, coils, etc. Anyone else wanna chime in? |
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Aug 29 2008, 04:39 AM
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#2
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sounds like a plan
 just building 2 monkeydogs at the moment i,ll post them later today
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Aug 29 2008, 04:49 AM
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#3
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you got msn mate?
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Aug 29 2008, 04:59 AM
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#4
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I third that motion...
Power to the monkey! Possible suggestions for titles... (Not that I have a problem with "Machine building", but it seems real specific.) "Building, Rebuilding, Tuning, and Maintenance of machines." (Too long?) "Machine Construction, Care, and Maintenance." (Little shorter.) "Machine Dynamics" (Too scientific and vague.) "Machines inside and out." (Too sissy-like.) "Hard Core, Soft Core, and Cages." (Sounds like a porn station selection.) "Advanced Personal Machines" (More fitting, since newbs rarely have a "Personal" bond with the machine.) "Un-Broke my machine!" (Too childish?) Could be a whole section alone... The missing one... We have... Safety Art General Sales But no specific area dedicated to the fundamental core of our creations... The actual tool. Machines - - Building (Physically constructing from raw parts.) - Rebuilding (Building a deteriorated machine to make it new.) - Tuning (Operation and issues related to running the machine.) - Maintenance (Fixing and keeping it in top shape, once built.) - Selling (Specific area for machine sales only. Sales that ARE YOURS.) - Buying/Advertisement (Give props, post specials and deals from online that ARE NOT YOURS.) |
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Aug 29 2008, 05:29 AM
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#5
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in my eyes even if you dont want to build its essential to know what teh difference between a lienr and shader is, like spring densities/length bla bla bla
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Aug 29 2008, 06:38 AM
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#6
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The Godoy brothers had written a very good book to learn more about machines and their secrets. It's a good read for everyone.
http://godoymachines.easystorecreator.com/...-010-detail.htm |
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Aug 29 2008, 11:10 AM
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#7
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started these this morning fabricated from raw meterials
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Aug 30 2008, 12:27 AM
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#8
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Monkey, ever worked with hammered metal? Those would look hell-a-sweet with severe distress damage and scratches... with that bronze-tone and those stamped-in letters... Almost has that whole "Steam-Punk" feel... (Even though it is not exactly a steam-punk design. I love it.)
What do you sell those for, out of curiosity... Tip... Keep the letters purposely unaligned... The stamps do not have an artistic fashion to them, so aligning them makes it look less artistic. Staggered like the first one, is F-cking awesome looking! See if you can find a good "Cracked" stamp... or gouge one out, to give it the ultimate rustic look. Also... Try making a single coil with that design... Keep the coil real close to the back-bar where your clip mount is... That forms the other half of the "U" connecting the bottom "S" pole of the coil, back up to the armature to complete the magnetic loop. Make the adjustment side-arm off the back, away from the coil-side... it is attracting "S" also, and may pull or push the armature sideways. If it extends off the top, as the mount for the back-spring... it will actually aide the armature. (You can also extend the armature, but make it thin, so the back spring can move freely... so the armature is almost touching the back-support, where the magnetism "S" can jump across to the "N" polarized armature from the magnet coil core.) Damn, now I gotta draw pictures again. Where is my pen, pencil, lipstick, eye-liner, chalk, crayon, paint, ink... anything that writes... This post has been edited by Isawhim: Aug 30 2008, 12:37 AM |
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Aug 30 2008, 12:47 AM
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#9
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this is my style glad you like it some people find it untidy but i like the rustic rough look like its been round the block a few times , my mother and father was in the antique trade maybe thats why i like this vintage hammered look ,, totally not into single coils man ,, have a look at ( myspace/monkeyrattattoos ) loads of customs there
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Aug 30 2008, 04:57 AM
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#10
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QUOTE (infinitum @ Aug 29 2008, 10:07 PM)  First of all im sorry fi this has been suggested before. But there seems to be one or two top machine builders on the forum, and i think its definatly appropriate to have a machine build section. It's important for any tattooist to understand fully how their machines work and what the variables are, i know there has been a few very informative posts on this but i think it deserves it own section. I myself would like to embark on this sort of thing shortly, maybe starting by casting frames and using professional machine parts, and gradually creating my own springs, coils, etc. Anyone else wanna chime in? Do you work with castings now? If so what type? Just curious as being able to produce decent and consistent castings (and fabrications for that matter) is a commitment (a lot like tattooing is). I've worked in metal trades for over 20 years. It takes around ten years to discover your limitations. If you want to sample the output of hobby casters then buy some of the stuff on Ebay at the moment. I'm not speaking of the "Far East" stuff either. Hammered finishes (and file finishes) are great. They have been done for hundreds of years. Finishes such as a planished finish are tedious and take years to do well. I have had a gutful of art student metal workers bashing something with a hammer then, unable (or too lazy) to properly file and polish it, call it a "planished" finish. No offense to any machine builders here. Each to their own and I have actually bought 4 from sellers here. (2 required re tapping and more) But there are natural finishes and there is "rough as guts" I have great respect for the trades. We don't like seeing scratchers working in tattoo shops. In the same vein I hate seeing the abundance of "boutique" machines available from people who have scant respect for what is involved in a good product. As far as metalwork goes, they are saved by the fact that they sell to a public who share their ignorance. (As a reference, try to remember how, as you learned more and more about tattooing, you began to realise how much horrible work there was out there.) (By way of edit and FWIW, I really like the look of those 2 machines that monkey has posted above.) This post has been edited by rfwillis: Aug 30 2008, 05:22 AM |
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Aug 30 2008, 05:21 AM
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#11
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QUOTE (rfwillis @ Aug 30 2008, 04:57 AM) Do you work with castings now? If so what type? Just curious as being able to produce decent and consistent castings (and fabrications for that matter) is a commitment (a lot like tattooing is). I've worked in metal trades for over 20 years. It takes around ten years to discover your limitations. If you want to sample the output of hobby casters then buy some of the stuff on Ebay at the moment. I'm not speaking of the "Far East" stuff either. Hammered finishes (and file finishes) are great. They have been done for hundreds of years. Finishes such as a planished finish are tedious and take years to do well. I have had a gutful of art student metal workers bashing something with a hammer then, unable (or too lazy) to properly file and polish it, call it a "planished" finish. No offense to any machine builders here. Each to their own and I have actually bought 4 from sellers here. (2 required re tapping and more) But there are natural finishes and there is "rough as guts" I have great respect for the trades. We don't like seeing scratchers working in tattoo shops. In the same vein I hate seeing the abundance of "boutique" machines available from people who have scant respect for what is involved in a good product. As far as metalwork goes, they are saved by the fact that they sell to a public who share their ignorance. (As a reference, try to remember how, as you learned more and more about tattooing, you began to realise how much horrible work there was out there.) *insert *clapping smilie |
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| Guest_bretho_* |
Aug 30 2008, 05:57 AM
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#12
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Monkeyrat, no offence but you may want to buy a mig welder and learn how to weld a nice run as that is a good looking machine until that terrible weld stares you in the face, i would be worried that weld would fracture after hours of operating vibration. i have noticed this on all of your machines which put up a red light when i bought new machines. i bet if you improved the workmanship of your manufacturing you would sell a lot more machines. I would also give one a try.
Dont take this as me being an asshole but i am a toolmaker by trade and employment so like to see any metal item manufactured to a high visual, operational and quality standard, cheers mate |
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Aug 30 2008, 08:32 AM
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#13
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QUOTE (bretho @ Aug 30 2008, 02:57 PM) Monkeyrat, no offence but you may want to buy a mig welder and learn how to weld a nice run as that is a good looking machine until that terrible weld stares you in the face, i would be worried that weld would fracture after hours of operating vibration. i have noticed this on all of your machines which put up a red light when i bought new machines. i bet if you improved the workmanship of your manufacturing you would sell a lot more machines. I would also give one a try. like i say not every ones taste i have done a few customs where the welds are not visible ,,,and i guarantee my frames you could drive over all my frames with a bus and they would still be in 1 piece maybe you should try one Dont take this as me being an asshole but i am a toolmaker by trade and employment so like to see any metal item manufactured to a high visual, operational and quality standard, cheers mate
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Aug 30 2008, 10:20 AM
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#14
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Just for interests sake, here are some finishes where the "process" is left to be seen.
The first 2 are really nice file finishes on chisel backs. The 3rd is hammered finishes on chisel backs. And the last is a hammered finish on a errrrr......hammer. None of this stuff is as easy as it looks, hence the high regard for it. Oh and all Japanese tools by the way. Enjoy.    
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Aug 30 2008, 11:06 AM
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#15
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That look... the last picture of the hammers with the hammered look... I love that style.
Might be because I like turtles and cheetahs and alligators and snakes and whittled wood... But I love it! Than again, I also love twisted metal, and odd shapes too. I liked the look of the split welds on those machines. To me, they add to the look. Though, I can see the concern with vibration issue. I am not sure if there is enough power in the machine to separate that weld. If you saw the welds on my scooter, you would wonder how it even stayed together! I am not a fan of casted molds, only because they are made for reproduction... but most are not reproduction quality when made at home. They end up making 20 horrible machines that are heavy, difficult to work with, and have the brittle quality that casting has to offer. Not to mention they take hours to machine down to a workable state. Unlike rolled and bent metal, which has grain aligned cores, the grainless stuff requires thicker builds for the same strength. The whole point of building a machine, is to keep the weight as low as possible, for balance and fatigue. Thus, the reason they use a frame and not a giant slab of flat metal folded around the coils. This is why I am starting to get into plastic frames. You can carve them with a dremel tool and a hand-saw, polish them with a buffer, and bend them with a heat-gun. The down side, is that you need to have a greater knowledge of structure strength, or you end-up with a frame that is twice as thick as a cast frame! But, I like a challenge. I am still playing with the drive systems on these. Since they are so horrible, almost anything I do makes them better. (Not mine, all these machines.) Being able to use the equivalent of a single 4-wrap to provide the power that you get from a normal dual 12-wrap helps reduce TONS of weight. Plus, it requires less power. You no longer need a V-8 with turbo, overdrive and a hemi, just to get the machine to drive up a small hill. You can run it off that old go-ped motor you have in the back room. (LOL, like the rotary designs, but without that horrible slow-in and slow-out which forces you to use faster speeds for a good fill.) |
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| Guest_bretho_* |
Aug 30 2008, 06:35 PM
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#16
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monkeyrat, you have just done it again, posted a pick of these welds again, every weld i see is horrible, especially the one on the coin. The frame welds have been put on like a string of bird shit and ground back and painted to hide the unsightly workmanship.
Dont mean to sound like a cocksag, but only trying to help. If you get these machines looking as good as some available they will sell like hot cakes. like i said before, when i was upgrading my machines yours was recommended by an experienced tattoo artist and the only reason i chose another brand was because of the fabrication. The operation of the machine was excellent i was told. Mate, don't know if your interested but i would like to help you, send me all of your frame components and dimensions and i will fabricate one of your machines and send it back dont know to much about the geometry but i will be able to get the frame looking pretty flash, cheers mate |
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Aug 30 2008, 11:49 PM
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#17
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,, points taken onboard i will do a few with invisible welds & polished up see what you think ,i,ll do 2 more monkeydogs this week
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| Guest_bretho_* |
Aug 31 2008, 02:21 AM
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#18
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QUOTE (monkeyrat @ Aug 31 2008, 05:49 PM) ,, points taken onboard i will do a few with invisible welds & polished up see what you think ,i,ll do 2 more monkeydogs this week mate, if you can get them looking as good as they work i will order a color packer from you, cheers mate |
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Aug 31 2008, 04:21 AM
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#19
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QUOTE (bretho @ Aug 31 2008, 11:21 AM) mate, if you can get them looking as good as they work i will order a color packer from you, cheers mate being built i,ll post the progress in a few hours
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| Guest_bretho_* |
Aug 31 2008, 05:44 AM
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#20
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QUOTE (monkeyrat @ Aug 31 2008, 10:21 PM) being built i,ll post the progress in a few hours don't rush to get it finished, slow and steady wins the race. and also a tip, clamp a piece of plate where you are going to stamp your brand name, place the letter stamps up hard against it when stamping and the lettering will be in a nice straight line, cheers This post has been edited by bretho: Aug 31 2008, 05:48 AM |
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