Paid Membership / No Way |
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 Jun 1 2008, 06:25 PM
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#1
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I remember back when this site first started, it was to help those interested in tattooing find the info needed to get started properly and learn the importance of CC and BBP.
If I remember correctly, Jason was a rookie back then and was sharing the info and lessons that he had learned from Mark to others in the same shoes that couldn't find a pro to mentor or shop to apprentice in. The whole idea of this site was to SHARE info and not fall into the category of a bunch of elitist who wouldn't help out the so called "scratchers" working from home. Then, they came up with the idea of asking for donations to help cover the cost of hosting and the professional forum script. Well, most everyone went along with the idea and pitched in to help out with the cost, which is fine. But now they want to charge for the information that was freely posted to this site. You've got to be kidding. With the exception of a few articles that Mark and a couple others have donated most of the info here is just repeats of information or ideas that rookies have read somewhere else on the site. Just because this site has a large number of members and thousands of post doesn't make it a wealth of information worth paying for. Yes, a twenty dollar donation to help out with cost is fine, but don't charge to access information that was originally donated for free to begin with. And what about the information that others posted to this site as a gesture to help out, are you going to hide that from the non-paying crowd which it was originally intended for. I know at least a few pros who visited this site and gave advice freely. I really liked this site when it was in its infancy, but then things kinda went south and I didn't hang out and post much since. The show and tell section is a perfect example, there are rookies giving out critiques about others work when they don't have any business tattooing anything other than a pigs ear. Is this site a benefit to others? .... yes I think it is, but not as a "pay for membership" to access information that is freely available on other sites. No, its not that I am cheap and don't want to pay.... I'll make a donation at any time to help keep the site going, but I'm not going to pay for information that was originally free. |
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Jun 1 2008, 09:40 PM
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#2
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What???
Most sites on the internet wont give you shit for information unless you're in a shop PERIOD.. Websites cost money! Name one book, dvd, or anything that will give this much help to an aspiring artist for $20 and I'll kiss your ass.. All this bitching is rediculous, I'm a member on lots of sites and a moderator on a few. Every single one charges more than this site!! Most have $20 a year fees, not just $20 lifetime.. Tattooing is a VERY exlusive industry!! Ink Trails is a site willing to share info that most sites would flame the hell out of you for just asking!! How the hell do you people pay for supplies when you're too damn cheap to pay for knowledge that will help you grow as an artist? Either you want to learn in this business or you dont.. ITS 20 FUCKIN DOLLARS PEOPLE!!!!!! Thats one butterfly on some chicks ass!! Quit bieng babies and save up your allowance!!!! This post has been edited by goob3r: Jun 1 2008, 09:53 PM |
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Jun 1 2008, 09:51 PM
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#3
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^^ agreed... I paid the first day I got on this site...
-------------------- Push the needle in... Now there's no return...
http://www.myspace.com/davethewicked http://forum.ink-trails.com/gallery-user1732-album213.html •()WìÇKëÐ[::::::::::::> |
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Jun 1 2008, 10:35 PM
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#4
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QUOTE (Dave_The_Wicked @ Jun 2 2008, 06:51 AM)  ^^ agreed... I paid the first day I got on this site... Same here paid first day. I searched around for info for ages before finding ink trails, since then I havent bothered looking because everything I need is here. All I can say is to the original poster, If the forum had gone bad when you left before, and its worse since you came back. Why did you bother posting you mindless drivel. As for newbies shouldnt be able to critique? We may be inexperienced in how to tattoo, but we know whether it looks good or not. -------------------- |
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Jun 2 2008, 12:17 AM
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#5
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QUOTE (Coleford_Ink @ Jun 2 2008, 12:35 AM) Same here paid first day. I searched around for info for ages before finding ink trails, since then I havent bothered looking because everything I need is here. All I can say is to the original poster, If the forum had gone bad when you left before, and its worse since you came back. Why did you bother posting you mindless drivel. As for newbies shouldnt be able to critique? We may be inexperienced in how to tattoo, but we know whether it looks good or not. Personally I don't give a shit who critiques my work and I do encourage the newbs just starting out to do so... They learn a lot by studying the pics and trying to find faults... Then when they go practice on the piggys, grapefruits, or practice skins they can make all the mistakes they need to. I'll gladly tell what they need to do to get better... maybe in a PM to save them some embarrasment or maybe in the open if it's a minor problem... any newb can do the same to me... it just makes me better and that's what it's all about... I'm a member of a lot of forums and yahoo groups and the one thing I can say is if you think there's better out there so be it but when you ask a question and the reply is "fuck off scratcher" or something in that nature you'll learn to appriciate sites like this, so far this site and another that costs a lot more is the only ones where pros and very good home artists will readily share their knowlege. Yeah I've had a few minor skirmishes here and there but at the end of it we all still walk away friends... Try that anywhere else... And for the cost of membership... Good luck finding a better price. I do pay a lot more at other places where artists are not so willing to help until they see some certs and it's all in private messages if they do so consider yourself lucky to find this place if you're not actively working in a shop... -------------------- Push the needle in... Now there's no return...
http://www.myspace.com/davethewicked http://forum.ink-trails.com/gallery-user1732-album213.html •()WìÇKëÐ[::::::::::::> |
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Jun 2 2008, 12:32 AM
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#6
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stop being a tight arse, honestly
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Jun 2 2008, 02:59 AM
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#7
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I have learnt more in a week here, than in a year of searching other forums and websites and/or watching instructional dvd's
Is worth every cent of the $20 (although us Aussies pay a bit more because of the currency exchange rate) |
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Jun 2 2008, 03:03 AM
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#8
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QUOTE (Big Pete @ Jun 2 2008, 06:59 PM) I have learnt more in a week here, than in a year of searching other forums and websites and/or watching instructional dvd's Is worth every cent of the $20 (although us Aussies pay a bit more because of the currency exchange rate) It is harder for some of us to get info elsewhere, I now live in a small city with only 1 Tattoo shop, and he ain't gunna give me any help, and the nearest shop from him is 100km (70mile) away, so apprentiships and advise is out of the question. $20 ain't gunna bust the bank. |
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Jun 2 2008, 04:08 AM
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#9
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I must admit, i didnt begrudge paying for it... its been helpful as so far. Coughed up on day one.
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Jun 2 2008, 05:06 AM
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#10
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QUOTE (crotalus258 @ Jun 2 2008, 12:25 PM) I remember back when this site first started, it was to help those interested in tattooing find the info needed to get started properly and learn the importance of CC and BBP. I remember that too, funny thing was there were fuck all people who would part with the cash... hence the membership coming inIf I remember correctly, Jason was a rookie back then and was sharing the info and lessons that he had learned from Mark to others in the same shoes that couldn't find a pro to mentor or shop to apprentice in. The whole idea of this site was to SHARE info and not fall into the category of a bunch of elitist who wouldn't help out the so called "scratchers" working from home. Then, they came up with the idea of asking for donations to help cover the cost of hosting and the professional forum script. Well, most everyone went along with the idea and pitched in to help out with the cost, which is fine. But now they want to charge for the information that was freely posted to this site. QUOTE (crotalus258 @ Jun 2 2008, 12:25 PM) You've got to be kidding. With the exception of a few articles that Mark and a couple others have donated most of the info here is just repeats of information or ideas that rookies have read somewhere else on the site. it's a $20 membership fee for life.... if a $20 donation was of no issue to you, why is the fee??Just because this site has a large number of members and thousands of post doesn't make it a wealth of information worth paying for. Yes, a twenty dollar donation to help out with cost is fine, but don't charge to access information that was originally donated for free to begin with. QUOTE (crotalus258 @ Jun 2 2008, 12:25 PM) And what about the information that others posted to this site as a gesture to help out, are you going to hide that from the non-paying crowd which it was originally intended for. I know at least a few pros who visited this site and gave advice freely. No problem there, I for one definately appreciate it, but the bigger this place gets, the more expensive it is to run. I wonder who would be one of the first to complain about server crashes, slow upload and download times and the like....QUOTE (crotalus258 @ Jun 2 2008, 12:25 PM) I really liked this site when it was in its infancy, but then things kinda went south and I didn't hang out and post much since. The show and tell section is a perfect example, there are rookies giving out critiques about others work when they don't have any business tattooing anything other than a pigs ear. I agree with Dave here, it's better that the rookies (myself included) train our eyes to see the problems that the pro's are picking up on different work, rather than inking those same problems into th skin before they can see themQUOTE (crotalus258 @ Jun 2 2008, 12:25 PM) Is this site a benefit to others? .... yes I think it is, but not as a "pay for membership" to access information that is freely available on other sites. No, its not that I am cheap and don't want to pay.... I'll make a donation at any time to help keep the site going, but I'm not going to pay for information that was originally free. -------------------- Left foot, Right foot. Repeat |
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Jun 2 2008, 06:31 AM
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#11
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If only half of the registered members paid for membership, thats over $17,700 in membership fees. SEVENTEEN THOUSAND, thats enough to host this site for 17 years on a dedicated server. So much for bandwidth problems.
There are plenty of sights out there that don't charge a dime to access and they have millions of hits per day. WebMD.com, Wikipedia.com, and any search engine that you use, just to mention a few. They charge the advertisers not the users. How about selling some ad space? For every good piece of information obtained from this site, you have to read through hundreds of bullshit post made by idiots who don't have a clue. Paid membership or donations is fine to help keep the sight going, but don't hide the information making it unobtainable except to paid members. Needlejacks and Studio has lots of good info, do they charge? Yes, but only for the ability to post pics, or send private messages. All the information is freely available to registered (free) members. Charge for the ability to use certain functions of this site, not for the information it contains. And as far as being a tight arse (as you put it), money isn't the issue here for me, its the fact that this site was built on a premise of sharing info. I'd like to know why it went from donations to forced membership? Why did the post that were posted freely to the board get moved to a private area? Anyway... I'm outta here......> |
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Jun 2 2008, 08:47 AM
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#12
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Your keen insight and kind words will bw missed.......LOL
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Jun 2 2008, 02:20 PM
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#13
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QUOTE If only half of the registered members paid for membership ahh yes and thereby we see the first problem... I don't know the stats on this board, but I do know from experience that it is usually closer to 5%, and if you are very lucky (or very smart) you can get that number up to about 10% I also have a better than fair idea of the real cost in man hours that it takes to keep one of these sites operational the last volunteer site I was involved with look on average 1-2 hours per day (every day) of my time... admittedly I didn't have mods to help but that equated to a loss of billable hours for me of... if I was airbrushing $240, if I was designing $150... per day that I WASN"T earning now I'm not saying that if I hadn't been managing that site I would have always been able to bill those hours, just saying that it not only the hosting costs that should be considered in a fair view now I'm old, so I don't give a toss what most people think... I have enough friends and usually this sort of post wouldn't even rate an read from me, let alone a reply, but we have a little thing in my country called 'the tall poppy syndrome' whereby folk will always target the people who are getting off their rear ends and doing something, especially when they do it well jealousy, sour grapes... call it what you will (shrug) and it pisses me off... when did being successful become a crime? I live in the real world where making a profit from hard work and creativity is what we all aspire to bottom line is it's not about $'s it's about value and respect, if you don't value a thing you for the most part don't respect it either... enough said oh and on a side note... I post my projects in the Show and Tell section because I honestly want/need all the help and insight I can get having no mentor close and handy to ask... I ask those who frequent this place for their opinions I am grateful for the time folk take to look at my work... and extremely appreciative of their comments.... even those I don't agree with! I don't critique others because I don't feel that I have the experience to offer anything of value to what ever problems I may see.... I just don't know enough about how to fix problems yet.... but when I do I would like to think that I will help wherever I can... just as others are helping me right now because art is subjective there are many designs that I just don't like because it's not the style of art that appeals to me... but posting a critique is more than just saying, I don't like what you have done...you've got to be able to see past the style and on to the technical aspects of the work itself, and I'm not there yet cheers gail -------------------- courage and serenity I got... it's wisdom I'm lacking
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Jun 2 2008, 02:33 PM
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#14
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QUOTE (goob3r @ Jun 1 2008, 09:40 PM) What??? Most sites on the internet wont give you shit for information unless you're in a shop PERIOD.. Websites cost money! Name one book, dvd, or anything that will give this much help to an aspiring artist for $20 and I'll kiss your ass.. All this bitching is rediculous, I'm a member on lots of sites and a moderator on a few. Every single one charges more than this site!! Most have $20 a year fees, not just $20 lifetime.. Tattooing is a VERY exlusive industry!! Ink Trails is a site willing to share info that most sites would flame the hell out of you for just asking!! How the hell do you people pay for supplies when you're too damn cheap to pay for knowledge that will help you grow as an artist? Either you want to learn in this business or you dont.. ITS 20 FUCKIN DOLLARS PEOPLE!!!!!! Thats one butterfly on some chicks ass!! Quit bieng babies and save up your allowance!!!! Couldnt agree more.... and although I do appreciate gettnig opposing views, the griping does get old. If theres so many other sites as great as this that provide this type if in depth info and this kind of community... then theres no reason to get worked up is there? Nothing lost for you, cuz you can get it over there. The mentality of, "EVERYTHING was free at day 1, so I have a RIGHT to keep getting it free till the day I die!" ... just rediculous.... The bottom line is, if its worth the cost to you, you pay it, if its not, you dont. If your not finding it an investment worth $20 for a lifetime membership... or even $2 once a month, then you dont appreciate this place for what its worth. |
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Jun 2 2008, 02:47 PM
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#15
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QUOTE (Crotalus258) Needlejacks and Studio has lots of good info, do they charge? Yes, but only for the ability to post pics, or send private messages. All the information is freely available to registered (free) members. I beg to differ, sunshine..... Needlejack's DOES have a "subscribers only" section. If you reckon money isn't an issue for you and you would happily donate anyway, stop whining and being such a tight arse! Fork out the pissy little $20 and get on with life..... -------------------- "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
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Jun 2 2008, 02:58 PM
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#16
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I appreciate and respect Crotalus as he has been around for a while. The bottom line is that I'd prefer to have a smaller membership base, composed of people who are serious about and respect the art. There is a TON of information that is available and Jr. Members can always ask any question in the Q & A section. I just had to create a value for paying members otherwise, people wouldn't value said membership.
I am still in the process of determining what areas of the site should be member only. I also like the fact that there's an area that can be used to post job opps, private contests, etc that isn't visible to guests. -------------------- Stay humble.
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Jun 3 2008, 11:52 AM
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#17
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many people are just spoiled imo,they expect a lot, pay no dues...
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Jun 3 2008, 12:30 PM
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#18
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Gotta throw my 2 cents in as I think most of you are missing the point he is making, which I also believe is a valid point. Lets look at this for example. Say I write a great balls to the wall tutorial and post it on the site for all to read and learn from. Then a few months later the site decides they want to make a members only section and move the article I wrote to benefit everyone into that section. Personally if I wanted to write an article and charge people to read it I'd have done it from the beginnning.
I don't disagree with the memebers only section, I only disagree with taking thing contributed from people who assumed the post were available to anyone and moving them to a section for the benefit of making money. IMO the memebers only section shouldnt have old post moved into it, only newly submitted stuff. Kinda be like me distibuting a book for free to help people then you take the original and start charging people for the same thing. |
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Jun 3 2008, 12:36 PM
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#19
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QUOTE (aaronj @ Jun 3 2008, 04:30 PM) Gotta throw my 2 cents in as I think most of you are missing the point he is making, which I also believe is a valid point. Lets look at this for example. Say I write a great balls to the wall tutorial and post it on the site for all to read and learn from. Then a few months later the site decides they want to make a members only section and move the article I wrote to benefit everyone into that section. Personally if I wanted to write an article and charge people to read it I'd have done it from the beginnning. I don't disagree with the memebers only section, I only disagree with taking thing contributed from people who assumed the post were available to anyone and moving them to a section for the benefit of making money. IMO the memebers only section shouldnt have old post moved into it, only newly submitted stuff. Kinda be like me distibuting a book for free to help people then you take the original and start charging people for the same thing. Thank you, finally someone intelligent enough to understand where I'm coming from. And Kuroj, believe me, I've paid my dues. Two years of study, research .... beg, borrowing and stealing to get into my own legal shop. And I've helped quite a few along the way. So don't talk to me about twenty bucks or my right to bitch about it. |
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