Lines, Lets talk about blow outs |
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 Aug 23 2007, 11:16 AM
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#1
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So here are some problems I see people have with lining. You are trying to place the ink in the level of skin that is deep enough not to peel off and shallow enough not be absorbed into the blood stream
The most common line ailments are blowouts. Sometimes blowouts are unavoidable keeping them under control is what you are trying to achieve. What they look like is a gray spot under the line or off to the side in where unwanted ink either gets pushed or seeps. The worst case is a large black dot in the middle of the line.  The Dark Black dot- Is not moving the machine fast enough or letting the machine run in the skin for two long. This tends to happen on long lines. Rookies tend to do this the most in their first tattoos not taking there foot off the peddle when they come to a stop or pulling the needle out before giving another stab at it. Even if you hesitate a little this can happen. If your machine is running too fast on the lining and you’re not going fast enough you can charge the skin and when it heals the ink settles and the line gets very wide and blurry. This happens a lot where two points meet like in a tribal piece. The Gray dot- Is the most common; myself along with most professionals sometimes can’t avoid the gray dot. What we are trying to do it cut down on the visibility and size of them where you can only see them if you look really close. It can be from the tissue being thinner in an area, a fatty deposit or a slight machine wobble where the ink is askew from the lower tissue then it is on top. Skin is slightly translucent and you can see into it a bit. This happens easily on tops of hands or feet where the skin is very thin Gray smudge- The smudge comes from holding your machine at a weird angle and the ink goes in at a weird degree giving you a black line of top then a smudge effect that bleeds out underneath. This happens when you’re new and hand strength is starting to develop and your machine is tipping from fatigue and adjustment to the new weight. Just be aware and these will be minimal. A pros line will be consistent and blowouts will be minimal, unlike canvas or paper doing a line is never the same way twice. No one person is the same and skin thickness will very so there is no exact depth to use just a general to go by so you have to feel how to put the line in. Unlike old tattoos from back in the day people are being more adventurous with their line work. Thick outlines are gaining in popularity so it’s crucial to know how to make thick lines. The correct way I have found is to make the line like you would do tribal. If they are thick artistic outlines then do two lines. Make two lines apart from each other then come back and fill in between them.  If you use too big a grouping the line can look fuzzy. Large grouping don’t put the same amount of pressure on the skin and don’t penetrate as well. When lining I don’t suggest using larger then a 7 round and then filling it in. In some cases you should still come back and touch up the points with a tight five or 3 liner or you’ll get round points. Some people try to use the skins natural reaction of spreading ink. They will take a 3 and double line or more over the same spot charging the area with ink. When it heals the line spreads. It also over works the skin and the outline heals raised. A tattoo should heal smooth and you shouldn’t be able to tell it from untattooed skin from the touch. These are things Newbies should be aware of if I left anything out please ask or post it . -------------------- |
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Aug 23 2007, 11:28 AM
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#2
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This dosent concern blowouts but
Yesterday i watched a guest artist do a large portrait. I learned a lot from watching him. His machines were running slow as hell, for what he called baby wash, the subtle greys. Barley lined anything and used blood lines in quite a few places. Whenever your making your stencil make little tally type marks where every shadow is. He left nothing up to his eye exept how dark and light it should be. I also found a new ink that works really well. I dont think ive heard of it on here, pelikan, but theres a trick to using it. You take the lid off for a while then put it in a pot of boiling water for 30 min. It boils most of the water out and leaves you with a really nice black. It seems to go into the skin well so you are left with a nice line. This post has been edited by oveink: Aug 23 2007, 11:30 AM -------------------- www.freewebs.com/churchtattoo
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Aug 23 2007, 11:31 AM
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#3
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QUOTE(mark @ Aug 23 2007, 07:16 PM)  So here are some problems I see people have with lining. You are trying to place the ink in the level of skin that is deep enough not to peel off and shallow enough not be absorbed into the blood stream The most common line ailments are blowouts. Sometimes blowouts are unavoidable keeping them under control is what you are trying to achieve. What they look like is a gray spot under the line or off to the side in where unwanted ink either gets pushed or seeps. The worst case is a large black dot in the middle of the line. The Dark Black dot- Is not moving the machine fast enough or letting the machine run in the skin for two long. This tends to happen on long lines. Rookies tend to do this the most in their first tattoos not taking there foot off the peddle when they come to a stop or pulling the needle out before giving another stab at it. Even if you hesitate a little this can happen. If your machine is running too fast on the lining and you’re not going fast enough you can charge the skin and when it heals the ink settles and the line gets very wide and blurry. This happens a lot where two points meet like in a tribal piece. The Gray dot- Is the most common; myself along with most professionals sometimes can’t avoid the gray dot. What we are trying to do it cut down on the visibility and size of them where you can only see them if you look really close. It can be from the tissue being thinner in an area, a fatty deposit or a slight machine wobble where the ink is askew from the lower tissue then it is on top. Skin is slightly translucent and you can see into it a bit. This happens easily on tops of hands or feet where the skin is very thin Gray smudge- The smudge comes from holding your machine at a weird angle and the ink goes in at a weird degree giving you a black line of top then a smudge effect that bleeds out underneath. This happens when you’re new and hand strength is starting to develop and your machine is tipping from fatigue and adjustment to the new weight. Just be aware and these will be minimal. A pros line will be consistent and blowouts will be minimal, unlike canvas or paper doing a line is never the same way twice. No one person is the same and skin thickness will very so there is no exact depth to use just a general to go by so you have to feel how to put the line in. Unlike old tattoos from back in the day people are being more adventurous with their line work. Thick outlines are gaining in popularity so it’s crucial to know how to make thick lines. The correct way I have found is to make the line like you would do tribal. If they are thick artistic outlines then do two lines. Make two lines apart from each other then come back and fill in between them. If you use too big a grouping the line can look fuzzy. Large grouping don’t put the same amount of pressure on the skin and don’t penetrate as well. When lining I don’t suggest using larger then a 7 round and then filling it in. In some cases you should still come back and touch up the points with a tight five or 3 liner or you’ll get round points. Some people try to use the skins natural reaction of spreading ink. They will take a 3 and double line or more over the same spot charging the area with ink. When it heals the line spreads. It also over works the skin and the outline heals raised. A tattoo should heal smooth and you shouldn’t be able to tell it from untattooed skin from the touch. These are things Newbies should be aware of if I left anything out please ask or post it . That was helpful also mark -------------------- www.freewebs.com/churchtattoo
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Aug 23 2007, 11:36 AM
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#4
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Oh, yes. This is exactly what I need to keep an eye out for!!
The general rule of thumb for needle depth on say an arm or leg (I know different areas have different skin thickness) I've always been told is about 1.5mm, but I'm concerned about blow outs. Would this be maybe me going too deep or the angle thing (I've gotten the grey smudge effect in the past)? I'm gonna copy & paste this one for sure!! -------------------- "In this truck is a man whose latent genius, if unleashed, would rock the nation, whose dynamic energy would overpower those around him. Better let him sleep?"
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Aug 23 2007, 11:43 AM
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#5
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This is Good shit Mark!!! I have been having some problems recently with some blow-out's.. Fortunatly, I was aware of #1 and for the most part how to avoid it from the start, as I started out being apprinticed, The thing is I never had a #3 Blow out in the beginning while being Taught... It has only been recently that I have seen this happen in some of my work, and It really got to me. I use primarily a 5RL, but will occasionally use a 3 for finer work. I actually just yesterday Ordered some 1's which I'm sure will come in handy on the rare occasion that I have something very detailed to do, However I did also order some 9RL Just for the hell of it, I wanted to play around with a heavy outline, like I have been seeing in alot of pieces lately, I really like the effect, as a matter of fact I just did a marker and color pencil, Japenese Tattoo style wall piece last night and used really heavy outlines on the Koi and Hanya Mask. Anyway, back to the point. I am a little concerned now that you say to avoid thicker liners but rather build up my lines with a fill. This is the technique that I have actually been using up until now, I just thought I could get more consistancy out of a 9RL... I see your point though... Ahh well.. I'll just throw them in the HUGE pile with my 13 Mags and my 13 Mag Bullet tips.... All my other needles that I ordered 100 of and didn't like...lol...
-------------------- I Live for this Shit!!!!
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Aug 23 2007, 11:56 AM
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#6
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QUOTE(oveink @ Aug 23 2007, 07:28 PM) This dosent concern blowouts but Yesterday i watched a guest artist do a large portrait. I learned a lot from watching him. His machines were running slow as hell, for what he called baby wash, the subtle greys. Barley lined anything and used blood lines in quite a few places. Whenever your making your stencil make little tally type marks where every shadow is. He left nothing up to his eye exept how dark and light it should be. I also found a new ink that works really well. I dont think ive heard of it on here, pelikan, but theres a trick to using it. You take the lid off for a while then put it in a pot of boiling water for 30 min. It boils most of the water out and leaves you with a really nice black. It seems to go into the skin well so you are left with a nice line. I think he is boiling the varnish out of fit. Thats why I don't use pelikan -------------------- |
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Aug 23 2007, 06:24 PM
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#7
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Sweet post Mark, great info. Keeper getting copied and pasted for future refernece, thanks.
I have a lining question for ya. Do you ride the needle, tube or switch depending on the piece? I started riding the tube only, then got into riding the needle. I have started to ride the needle on detalied lines and the tube on longer linees. The only lining problems I have are with riding the needle on long lines, I know its my needle depth casusing my line problems. Is this common with riding the needle? About the Pelikan I know it has varnish in it doesnt it also say "not for tattooing?" -------------------- Ya I know theres typos, Ive got sausage fingers; deal with it
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Aug 23 2007, 07:19 PM
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#8
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It says don't ingest or something I'll go to teh art store and look again. I throw the needle out so I can see I never ride the tube. DO what is comfortable for you that gets the desired results.
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Aug 23 2007, 09:43 PM
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#9
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what do you mean by throw the needle out? giving it more throw? setting the needle out further in idle?
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Aug 23 2007, 11:03 PM
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#10
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I set my needle to be about a 16th of an inch out from the tube tip when the machine is off.
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Aug 24 2007, 08:47 AM
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#11
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QUOTE(Chef-Ink @ Aug 24 2007, 02:24 AM) Sweet post Mark, great info. Keeper getting copied and pasted for future refernece, thanks. I have a lining question for ya. Do you ride the needle, tube or switch depending on the piece? I started riding the tube only, then got into riding the needle. I have started to ride the needle on detalied lines and the tube on longer linees. The only lining problems I have are with riding the needle on long lines, I know its my needle depth casusing my line problems. Is this common with riding the needle? About the Pelikan I know it has varnish in it doesnt it also say "not for tattooing?" Yes it says not for tattooing. They sell it in the eikon catalog. I dont know about varnish. Ridin the tube seems hard for me, never really gave it the time. -------------------- www.freewebs.com/churchtattoo
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Aug 28 2007, 04:51 PM
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#12
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QUOTE Rookies tend to do this the most in their first tattoos not taking there foot off the peddle when they come to a stop or pulling the needle out before giving another stab at it. I learned, that I am not allowed to take my foot off the pedal when I am in the skin  and when it comes to the edge- because I work from the needle I can get into the line again. do you think I can just- when Iam at the end of the line, put my foot away and leave the needle in, and then go to another direction from the edge. everything without putting the needle out of the skin? -------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
No ma´am. I am not the devil, I am Musician. www.sirtralala.net www.myspace.com/SirTralala |
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Aug 28 2007, 08:51 PM
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#13
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Don't have the machine running if you aren't moving. If you stay still you are charging the skin with ink.
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Aug 28 2007, 09:11 PM
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#14
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excellent post mark.
Thanks you as always for you awsome input! -------------------- No forgiveness for my sins, I preffer punishment
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Sep 1 2007, 12:13 AM
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#15
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Agreed. I always look forward to these informative posts. Thanks for taking the time Mark.
-------------------- Tattooed people don't care if you aren't tattooed.
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Sep 6 2007, 01:28 AM
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#16
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This is by far the clearest explanation I have ever heard................
Thank you........ -------------------- We are all laying in the gutter but some of us are looking for spare change........
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Sep 6 2007, 06:07 AM
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#17
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Awesome post! That was really informative!
-------------------- An OFFICIAL Hip Hop head since 1978
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Sep 8 2007, 12:17 AM
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#18
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QUOTE Awesome post! That was really informative! i agree. thanks -------------------- |
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Sep 11 2007, 11:48 AM
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#19
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it was a very frustrating night, i tattooed this guys ribs with calligraphy and the inks wouldnt take for some reason in certain areas.... i kept having to reline it over and over again... is that normal? or is because the skin wasnt taut enough.. i used a 5rl to line..... running at around 8 volts...
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Sep 11 2007, 12:37 PM
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#20
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the skin wasn't taught ive come to this conclusion about most problems when the ink is not going in if you have the skin taught you barely need to penetrate for it to stay in.
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